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Your self, your soul, is merely a story you tell yourself

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Duke of York, Nov 21, 2016.

  1. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    What parts you got?
     
  2. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    No 'Great Mystery' there, just a few 'don't know's.
     
  3. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    "Great Mystery" is not an invocation of the supernatural, it's a simple statement of truth regarding our knowledge of consciousness. We are stumped. And if you think otherwise then please accept that you are going against the grain of scientific opinion.
     
  4. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    If you're in combat, the adrenaline kicks in. When the action's moved on it's a different matter.
     
  5. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    I suspect that scientific opinion may disagree.
     
  6. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    So do cats.
     
  7. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    From too much love of living, from fear of death set free,
    We thank, with brief thanksgiving, whatever gods may be,
    That no life lives forever, that dead men rise up never,
    That even the weariest river winds somewhere safe to sea.

    Wish I could remember who wrote that. Don't think it was Walt Whitman.
     
  8. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    Or:

    Immanuel Kant was a real p*ssant who was very rarely stable,
    Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy be**ar who could think you under the table,
    David Hulme could out-consume both Schopenhauer and Hegel,
    And Wittgenstein was a beery schwein who was jusht ash schlosched as Schlegel.
    There's nothing Nietsche couldn't teach ya 'bout the raising of the wrist.
    Socrates himself was permanently p*ssed.
    John Stuart Mill of his own free will on half a pint of shandy was particularly ill,
    Plato, they say, could put it away, half a crate of whisky every day.
    Aristotle, Aristotle was a b*gger for the bottle, Hobbs was fond of his dram,
    And René Descartes was a drunken f*rt 'I drink, therefore I am'.

    Or in other words, the question is: do "I" survive the death of my body?
    The questions are: what is this "I"?
    And: if "I" do survive, what then?
    And: Is religion just the perfect con-trick, in that if the promise isn't kept, "I" can't return to claim my stake back?
     
  9. Duke of York

    Duke of York Star commenter

    Yes, but the adrenaline always kicks in when you're in danger, no matter where you are. I'm only relating what experts have offered from their observations of wounded people in war zones and at home.

    Others have offered alternative opinions, such as soldiers are braver than civilians, so pain doesn't affect them as much, but I regard that as less plausible than the explanation of the perception of what could be lost as a result of the injury and the degree to which this will enhance the pain.

    I'm not an expert in matters like this. Better explanations are very welcome.
     
  10. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Swinburne
    And you got the first line slightly wrong
     
    delnon likes this.
  11. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    As @Didactylos4 said, other opinions may disagree; there are compelling arguments for life and consciousness being inevitable emergent qualities) , but let's assume 'we are stumped'; what do you think that tells us about consciousness that some of us are missing?
     
  12. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    You can't cut butter with butter?

    BTW It is perfectly possible for consciousness to be an inevitable emergent phenomenon and be a Hard Problem to analyse.

    Your tone implies that you are not actually stumped, yet you appear to have little light to shed.
     
  13. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Most scientists think it is the former (or more accurately, an adaptive system developed in many animals and some reptiles as a necessary survival mechanism
     
    delnon and Nanook_rubs_it like this.
  14. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    You're shifting your goal post a little; from 'stumped' to 'difficult to analyse'. Anyway, I find the idea of consciousness emerging and developing through the mechanisms of evolutionary advantage to be consistent with what is known.
     
  15. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    And it is entirely possible to cut butter with butter
     
  16. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    It's easy to understand how consciousness is useful. And it's only slightly difficult to spell too.
     
  17. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    Yes. A poet I rate perhaps lower than he deserves. Serves me right for quoting from memory.
     
  18. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    I confess I only know it by heart as I had to recite it (in it's entirety) frequently after misquoting it to a rather agéd and somewhat grumpy teacher in my youth.
    He pointed out that if I was going to mock the elderly I should, at least, do it accurately.
    Something I thank him for as it has been a comfort on many occasions since
     
  19. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    There is actually some physical truth in our uniqueness from an experiential basis - namely the brain is "plastic" - it is changed physically by experience and by how we tend to think because of the way neurons form and behave. However, plasticity continues throughout life, and so the mould(y) can always be broken. Living one's life well is, perhaps, the art of balancing the comfortable and familiar with the novel and the challenging...
     
  20. delnon

    delnon Lead commenter

    Perhaps the essential problem is that we haven't defined our terms. And having gladly extracted the smelly yellow liquid from previous posts, perhaps I ought to offer some daffynitions:

    1. awareness/realisation: the non-automatic, conscious thought processes which a living being applies to itself and its environment.

    2. Self: the awareness of a living being that it is a discrete entity, not an element or appendage of another entity or group of entities.

    3. Soul: the intangible aspect of the self, contained within the body yet not realised as a physical element of that body, which is believed to survive the death of the body.
     

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