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Year 3 Optional Sats results :(

Discussion in 'Primary' started by monkey1, May 24, 2010.

  1. I've just marked my maths test for my year 3 class. This is the first year ive had them - results show that most class have only improved by 1 sublevel - some have stayed the same.... im glad none have gone backwards...
    Do anyone elses year 3 results look similar?? Or is it just my crappy teaching??
  2. I've just marked my maths test for my year 3 class. This is the first year ive had them - results show that most class have only improved by 1 sublevel - some have stayed the same.... im glad none have gone backwards...
    Do anyone elses year 3 results look similar?? Or is it just my crappy teaching??
  3. flickaz

    flickaz New commenter

    It's not your crappy teaching, it's the totally different style of paper they have from ks1 to year 3. Give your kids a yr 2 level 3 paper and they will get better scores. They only need 7 marks to get a 2C on the first paper, what's that all about??? How on earth are KS2 teachers meant to show progress from that?
  4. Benbamboo

    Benbamboo Occasional commenter

    My Y3 children have performed quite poorly on the optional sats paper too, way below their usual level of work. I honestly thought the test was terrible, especially the short writing task, it certainly won't be reflected in my teacher assessment.
  5. lardylegs

    lardylegs Occasional commenter

    Our year 3 results are always rubbish. It's the first timed test they've taken, plus the Mental Maths paper throws some of them completely. Also, the layout of some of the questions in the Maths paper is very confusing, making pupils panic and leave stuff out.
    The writing, if you do that Treasure Hunt paper, is always dire, because it's such a **** task and difficult to score highly when all they write is "I like to play It with Tom Dick and Harry." The plan a treasure hunt task is also hard because how many 8 year olds know how to plan a treasure hunt?
  6. Smythie

    Smythie New commenter

    This publication is interesting reading if you teach Year 3's - especially if you have parents asking why their children have not made any progess!
    up: Pupils who fall
    behind in Key Stage 2

    Also Getting there http://www.teachernet.gov.uk/_doc/12449/Getting%20There%20-%20final.pdf
  7. Thank you for all the replies... am half way through marking the writing - taking hours! So far the ones i have marked are coming out mainly where I teacher assessed them as being, some got the same level as year 2 as they completly didnt understand the task - or just wrote a load of waffle! But I have my own teacher assessment from work i have levelled throughout the year...
    Am just a bit annoyed at the maths - as found out that in year 2 they have as long as they need - and then this year they only get 45 minutes - some of mine didnt get to attempt all the questions!
  8. oh dear!

    My year 3's are attempting the maths and science over half term. But not doing the writing ones.

    Hoping they will be ok, however I know already and this thread has confirmed it. I have about 8 children who will not probably get over 1/2way through the papers in the alloted time. Time will tell if my hunch is right or not.

  9. I am really glad that this issue has been raised.
    I taught Y3 a few years back and had the same problem - only 1 sub level progress in most cases in Maths. It made me look like a weak teacher because they hadn't made the expected progress.
    It was only when I looked into the Year 2 papers sat that I realised that they didn't have to score many marks to get awarded a level 3.
    Problem I found too was that SMT were quite blind to the above and I was questioned on each pupil why they hadn't made the grade in Maths. I think KS1 papers and Y3 papers are out of sync and need looking into - especially when the quality of your teaching is questioned.
    Of great comfort to know that its not just me who had this problem!

  10. Of course here lies the benefit of using APP (Shudder)
    Where should they not come up to scratch on the test in Y3 or get lucky in the Y2 paper any teacher assessment can be supported by APP standards and evidence.
    I am just finishing my SATS (Y2) for this year and there are a couple of children who got L3 "officially" on the Maths papers but APP evidence suggests 2A.
    Needless to say the 2A is what will be reported.
  11. It's not your teaching. My writing results were the worst out of all the papers we did. We did the Treasure Hunt/Playground games writing paper but it was difficult for them to score highly, some didn't understand the task and others gave limited information.

    I'm trying to convince myself it was the task and the fact that it's the first time that they've ever been in a test situation and not my teaching!!
  12. I wish you taught at our feeder infant school! The number of children we get into Year 3 that are apparently level 3 in unbelievable. Our Year 3 classes always look to have made poor progress as we're lucky if they even maintain their Y2 level. The differing ways the KS1 and KS2 tests are done is ridiculous, especially when Ofsted directly compare the results. Of course a child will do better in a test when they have done a topic on it for a month before and then have no time limit given!
  13. lardylegs

    lardylegs Occasional commenter

    I tell you, that Treasure Hunt /Playground Games paper is useless, and does not reflect Year 3 expectations at all, but Head Teachers don't understand that, all they see are the grades.
  14. I'm Year 2 at the moment and moving up to Year 3 in September so will have all this to come no doubt! As I understand it, the levels are further inflated as 3C's at the end of Year 2 are automatically adjusted to 3B's when the child starts KS2. I really don't understand the logic behind this!
  15. Glad to read this (well, not glad in that way) but I've taught Year 2 for several years now and have a constant battle to realistically report from the SMT. They are always pushing for more Level 3s and I always dig my heels in and if they've just scraped a Level 3 in any way, shape or form I refuse to report it, TAing at 2A. They hate it but it's not fair on the Year 3 teachers and, as you say, timed tests are COMPLETELY different to the KS1 version where they have a long time to finish.
    APP should address this but that's another story.
    And you're quite right. 3C at the end of Year 2 is NOT reported. It's just a level 3 but when entered into KS2 it magically becomes 3B. There is a historic reason for this (administrative) and a thread elsewhere on this but can't remember why now.
    I sympathise greatly. I'm sure your teaching is fab. Stand your ground about the issues of timing, etc etc. My son is doing GCSEs - he's bright, academic but has very poor time management techniques and hates exams, always struggling to finish. Has a big effect on final outcome.
  16. My Yr3s have also performed poorly in the optional SATs, particularly my lower achieving boys in the writing tasks- treasure hunt/playground games which they found completely uninspiring and too abstract to do their literacy skills justice. My TA's are higher and a better reflection but that doesn't show when compared with KS1 results and the number of sub levels progress they have made sinceYR2.
  17. I've done a couple of years in Year 3 - if mine go into Year 4 with the same "on paper" levels they came into Year 3 with I've done a good job. We assess them ourselves in September as the KS1 levels are just not a reflection of where they really are. Unfortunately on paper it looks like Year 3 make no progress but luckily my Head knows the reality - KS1 teachers are under pressure to give L3s just as Year 6 teachers are to get them to L5. I suspect many teachers of Year 7 have a similar experience and I know children make little "progress" in year 7 too!
    Anyway if your L3s (being 3b of course not 3c) were to make 2 sublevels you would have to give them 4c. So that's 4a at the end of year 4 and 5b at the end of year 5 - not very realistic. Two sublevels a year is just nuts!!
    Rant over. Actually I find the qca mark scheme for this paper over generous and had to be very careful not to give what I know were unjustified high L3s. If they have the handwriting and spelling marks it's hard to keep them at L2!
  18. lardylady

    lardylady Star commenter

    I have just marked all my Y2 SATs, and even the poorest children have come out with either 2C or 2B in the maths, but I won't be sending them up on such inflated levels, even though my Head says that I should. I only ever sebd up children with a L3 in maths if they only dropped one or two marks from the L3 paper. if they scraped it, and the APP evidence supports it, then I give them a 2A. This year, I have no outstanding writers, so I won't give any of them a L3.
    We are given 4 days cover to administer the SATs, so I was able to do the written maths papers in groups of 8. When I had Y3, they all had to sit the test at the same time, so of course there's going to be a big difference in their attainment.
    Before Y2, I was in Y3 and used to dread receiving those inflated levels so I always try to be totally honest with my teacher assessment, and err on the side of caution.
  19. totally agree .........this how L3 should be
  20. Tbh the year 3 writing optional 'sat' is a total joke. How can you expect children to write a text type that they have never encountered?

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