Hi I have a very disjointed class of Y5 pupils. Of course some of them are lovely - however others have behavioural issues that are well known within the school. This year group has caused problems since it was in KS1 and the issues have changed and grown as they have grown. So, this trouble is not new to the school but it is new to me in Y5 (I've always been a KS1 teacher before so I am also learning to teach UKS2) The 2 main protaganists are both very wilfull and like to be the centre of attention - they also hate each other with a vengeance and once they start neither seems capable of stopping going off at the other. The main problems are back chatting and refusing to be quiet - ever - even for a second - they both, independently of each other, make noises, comments to get others to join them, find everything funny, etc you know the stuff - but there are soooo many others in the class who are happy to help them carry on that I am having trouble getting whole class attention to give learning a chance. PE the other day was a nightmare as 8 children were refusing to cooperate in any way. We use detention as a deterrent during play and lunchtime - or short staying in, an in class detention with the teacher for a smaller misdemeanor. I see some parents after school and can report issues to them, another has a home/school book and another is on report card which seems to make his behaviour worse not better as he sees the whole world is against him. We have house points and praise for good behaviour and work. Please give me ideas for how to have a class presence and tips to gain control when things are slipping - and how do others cope with a class who finds it impossible to be silent???