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Would you employ a QTLS qualified teacher in a Primary school?

Discussion in 'Primary' started by nerllybird, Sep 11, 2012.

  1. Hi, I'm not in a position to answer this really, but I hope you get the information you need.
    I wonder if I could be nosy and ask why, if you are so keen to teach Primary, you have not undertaken a Primary PGCE? You don't have to answer that, of course, but I'm thinking that this would be a much easier option and would increase your chances of gaining work in a primary school ahead of other applicants who are most likely to have QTS. :)
     
  2. Hi, that would have been my preferred option, but with a young family, mortgage etc, I can't afford to leave work. Another option I would look at is a GTP after my degree. The QTLS way would just be quicker. I know it's not the traditional way to teaching, but should that really matter?? Thanks
     
  3. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    Short answer, No!
    Sorry, but with the competition currently for primary teaching roles, we can pick and choose and would prefer someone who has the maximum amount of training and expertise in primary education ( we even look slightly more favourably on BEd than PGCE for new entrants, something we haven't even considered previously) QTLS would not meet our essential criteria sift.
     
  4. Confidence knocked. Put in place!!!! :-(. Just because someone has all the neccessary training and 'expertise' doesn't mean they would be any good ( which I know you know). I'm sure someone would find my application worthy of an interview.
     
  5. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    I'm sure they would but, when you have 2-300 applications for one vacancy, you have to be pretty ruthless at the sift. My school, for good or bad, has decided that priority goes to those with specific training and/or experience for the post being applied for. That means B.Ed in Primary or PGCE 4-11. We can easily still have over a hundred applications meeting this criteria, we then move onto experience in the specific year group where the vacancy exists.We can only really interview 4-6 applicants,so whilst enthusiasm and a willingness to learn are fine, everyone claims to offer that! QTLS is still seen as the qualification for post-compulsory education, I'm not sure how you could change this view without additional qualifications and experience.
     
  6. Thanks for honesty and insight. Maybe the best thing I can hope for short term is a temp vacancy coming up at a school I am doing work experience at then the position becoming available permanently. If not, holding out for a GTP.
     
  7. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    Good Luck!
    However you get to do it, primary teaching has to be the best job ever!
     
  8. modgepodge

    modgepodge Established commenter

    You've asked for advice, you've been given it, with reasons. I'm sorry you don't like the answer. As carrie says, there are SO MANY applicants for each primary job at the moment, why would they choose you over someone who has specifically trained in the age range they want to teach? I'm sure you'd be great, but (I mean no offence) you haven't really mentioned any particular skills that stand out - enthusiasm, having your own kids, experience in primary schools etc is something many teachers will have - as well as the relevant qualification. I personally think you'd be mad to ignore the advice given. I say this as someone who has a Primary PGCE and got outstanding on final placement, and 2 years experience in managing a private tuition business, yet I still struggled to get a job after uni and had to do supply for a term. There are many equally qualified teachers as me unemployed after 2 or more years if trying to get a job.

    I really think the GTP is your best bet, if you can't afford a PGCE.

    And I'm sorry this wasn't what you wanted to hear :(
     
  9. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    I'm sorry but we'd not give you even an interview either.

    An essential in the selection criteria for almost all primary posts is QTS and desirable, at least, is experience of teaching the primary age range. You simply don't meet that.

    Even volunteering wouldn't give you the experience we'd look for. Planning and teaching a series of lessons at the appropriate level, differentiating, teaching the whole range of subjects, responsibility for assessments and progress. All these things even those just qualifying have and you wouldn't.

    Sorry but there aren't anything like enough jobs for those trained and / or experienced in primary teaching. People with neither will need an awful lot of luck.

    Maybe have a chat with the HT of the school where you are doing work experience...see what they tell you. Also ask on the HT's forum on here.
     
  10. I do appreciate all feedback given. I was being a bit 'tongue in cheek' on a previous post. All I was after was a general feeling of the possibility. As I said my original route was going to be GTP but with the change in policy allowing QTLS to teach all age ranges, it was just another route to explore. I do realise there is 'tension' from QTS about the new policy about QTLS (especially from my wife!!) but things do change (not neccessarily for the better).
     
  11. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    It isn't so much a tension about qualifications as a total lack of knowledge and an unknown ability to do the job. You have no-one to give you a reference that says you are great at the job. You have no experience (not even from a placement or a lecture) to write about. Why on earth would someone give you the job? This sounds harsh, but it is the question you need to have a clear answer to.

    If you were a HT looking for the very best candidate. Would you choose you over a person with an outstanding reference showing they would be a great asset to your school? Would you choose you over someone with a track record of outstanding lessons? If you have 50 people with outstanding references and applications, would you choose you? What if you had 100?
     
  12. Hi Tom, I am a primary head teacher and although I can see were the people above are coming from, I think that you would have a lot to offer a primary school and may well be a 'breath of fresh air' that some schools r lookin for? A young male role model, someone who probably has far more behaviour management experiences than most, working under pressure, life experience and u r heading in the right direction with the experience u r gaining! Yes it would b hard work and u would need support with certain aspects but don't most NQT'S? Do u know anyone who teaches primary school who could provide a strong support network? Good luck and please don't let the previous comments put you off!
     
  13. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    Well, Tom has one area of expertise you might find useful, he can spell!
     
  14. Eternalwinter

    Eternalwinter New commenter

    Hi Tom!
    I am also a Cert.Ed teacher with QTLS and I know how difficult is to get into teaching. Have you tried secondary schools? I believe secondary schools can be more flexible ( specially if you hold a degree) when hiring staff without QTS . There are roles such as TA, cover, supply, instructors etc that you can try in secondary schools. There are schools with sixth form colleges where you can take some lessons and gain even more experience.
    A primary school job will involve working with children who sometimes are not even trained to go to the toilet, children who can't read or write etc. I believe primary schools would be reluctant to employ a QTLS teacher. The difference from FE to primary is enormous and they could use this argument against you.
    On the other hand, secondary schools you are closer to FE colleges and if you are extremely lucky, you can be employed as a qualified teacher. If you hold a degree and have experience working in a secondary school, you have more chances than in primary. Once you are in secondary, you can take a quick route to achieve QTS ( Only assessment route). If you are lucky and get a few teaching hours in a secondary school, make sure your lessons are observed on a regular basis so that you can have something to support your application.
    In my opinion, the problem is that some schools are not familiar with these changes and are reluctant to employ QTLS teachers. It is our duty to let them know that we can offer the same or better service than QTS teachers, but if they don't get the message, go for the QTS.
    I have gained experience working in a secondary school and I have a few teaching hours at its sixth form. I make sure my lessons are observed with the same QTS standards, so the school is aware that there is no difference between me (QTLS) and other teachers ( QTS).
    If you decide to go for the QTS, is only because of the career prospects, not because you are less qualified with QTLS. But as I said, with QTLS is better moving towards secondary, no primary but if you really love primary, you should start the training required for primary.
    Good luck.
     
  15. Hi Tom,

    I am FE Lecturer, Cert Ed, MBA etc just completed professional formation folder with Ifl. To gain more understanding of Primary Education I worked as a classroom assistant in our local school with year 6. It was an amazing experience that made me realise why I had not thought of this career change earlier. Key outcome was the need for planning and preparation, but the quality of output from the children was amazing. If only more FE Lecturers would put this much preparation into their sessions as happens in Primary School ! Critical to the success of the teaching was the innovation, creativity and inspiration from the teacher. If the heart is not there then the magic is not going to happen. I hope to spend at least a year as a TA before applying for a teaching role. So much to see, experience and learn.SEN is another key area and specialist which needs more support. Let me know how you get on. Best wishes.
     

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