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Would this solve teacher shortages - almost at a stroke?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Nonentity, Oct 12, 2017.

  1. Nonentity

    Nonentity New commenter

    Well, no. Firstly, as you say, pupils may lose. Secondly, supply teachers less likely to be hired near end of summer term etc so more cover for the other teachers. Plus fewer teachers available for cover. During exam time invigilation spread among fewer people...Plus you're still stuck with the large classes, missing the opportunity online courses present. Behavioural problems will increase.
  2. Nonentity

    Nonentity New commenter

    Dealing with the first point, I suggest that experienced teachers are often older and thus more easily worn down by workload, behaviour, disrespect etc etc NQTs have more energy - and are cheaper, yes

    For your second point..I am suggesting that IF there is a vacancy rather than wait weeks and weeks for the right person, use technology AND teachers and pupils will gain in terms of lesson quality and improvement in working life

    Over a period of time, then maybe one teacher per subject would be replaced...BUT as said, I am suggesting that workload and quality of life would improve. So teachers would not lose their jobs, this is just natural wastage.

    The danger is redundancy, yes but if the course is a complement rather than replacing there'd not be a problem. Currently teachers are of course used to mark homework etc plus a whole host of non teaching activities.

    Pre-internet I would read 2-3 textbooks and prepare lessons. Now I read a lot of sites etc etc and integrate youtube etc into lessons. The quality of the information I give out and the discussions arising have risen considerably
  3. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Lead commenter

    This has happened to me on several occasions.

    I always do a quick copy-post-to-clipboard (Ctrl-A, Ctrl-C) prior to hitting send. For very long posts I'll paste into a text editor first, just to be on the safe side.
    lunarita likes this.
  4. Laphroig

    Laphroig Senior commenter

    Read The Fun They Had by Isaac Asimov.
    Moony and peggylu like this.
  5. Laphroig

    Laphroig Senior commenter

    OP, are you a teacher? Your comments re older and experienced teachers being 'worn down' are offensive. Have you considered that the way schools are run today is to blame for staff being worn down? Maybe NQTs seem to be more resilient simply because they lack the experience -and, maybe -awareness to recognise and challenge the b.ull s. t in modern education., none of which is for the benefit of students. The relationship between teaching and learning is about much more than the transmission of knowledge. The most successful teachers are those who form positive relationships with students and guide them through. Online courses are a refuctionist, soulless idea re teaching.
  6. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    Some students currently manage to teach themselves. This follows after years of being exposed and tutored in the skills to be able to do this by teachers. They reach a point where they can do original research themselves. They are normally doing a Phd.
    galerider123 and Moony like this.
  7. Nonentity

    Nonentity New commenter

    I am not saying they ONLY study online. I am saying that instead of five hours a week in an overcrowded classroom where low level noise etc limits learning and a constant change of teacher owing to teacher shortages, then INSTEAD they have (for example) two hours a week in a small group with a consistent teacher and three hours a week online learning in a well equipped IT/Language lab style classroom.
  8. Nonentity

    Nonentity New commenter

    Yes I am teacher and yes, I am tired. Also, I can see the effect it has on pupils I teach in my department if there is a teacher shortage (several teach my subject) which results in supply teachers, uncertainty and constant change.An 'online element' has been used in classes for years eg when pupils do 'projects' in class.
  9. wanet

    wanet Star commenter

    In theory no problem.
  10. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    This may work for the more able and motivated.

    The three hours online learning would be a problem for the majority of students. I have seen groups who have had lessons online for different subjects earlier in the day. They react quite differently to yet another computer based lesson if they have already had one.
  11. Nonentity

    Nonentity New commenter

    An interesting observation. What age are the people in the group? Do you think this would be compensated for if instead of the big classes they had fewer, smaller ones PLUS online learning?
  12. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    I think that pupils respond to a variety of approaches. Computer/Online has its place. Even smaller classes show the computer fategue effect.
  13. lunarita

    lunarita Established commenter

    A-ha. I'm beginning to see where you're coming from.
  14. Nonentity

    Nonentity New commenter

    No I am saying that, from your post, three lessons a week using online learning (and a negative effect) counterbalanced perhaps by 2 lessons a week in a small class with their usual teacher (positive effect). Would that not be better than a stream of supply teachers, uncertainty, no change in financial resources, continued stressed teachers etc? Plus much quicker to implement?
  15. lunarita

    lunarita Established commenter

    So you're promoting something you know will have a negative effect? For 60% of the time?

    This is about cost-saving (increased profit?) rather than wuality of education, isn't it?
  16. Nonentity

    Nonentity New commenter

    I am not promoting anything. I am suggesting that using a combination of online learning and the existing staff but now with smaller classes would be better - educationally, financially - for pupils/school/existing teachers than a current situation where teacher shortages are resulting in a) supply teachers b) continued uncertainty for pupils and schools c) costly and time taking recruitment programmes.

    Also I have also suggested that the cost saving this approach would have could then rresult in better facilities elsewhere. For example, three teachers in one department. One leaves. Classes rescheduled and online learning introduced. The saving - for example - £20,000 a year. This is then spent on improved library and IT facilities, redecoration throughout the school, more educational trips out etc.

    Overall quality of education, up.

    Another poster suggested online learning had a negative effect. If that is true then I am asking whether that would be counterbalanced by the positive effect of smaller classes, less stressed teachers etc.

    I am not saying I 'know' there will be a negative effect - perhaps there won't. It depends on many things such as the subject, quality of online programme, how it is introduced, other resources in particular IT, age of the pupils, how many lessons a week etc
  17. lunarita

    lunarita Established commenter

    How? If as above, the 60% of classes per week would have a negative effect? Are you now saying you DON'T believe that such classes will have a negative effect? Or that the negative effect would be compensated by the cost savings?

    60% negative and 40% positive might not actually raise the overall quality unless the positive effect is way stronger than the negative.

    It also depends on the children being engaged by the online programme beyond the novelty value of the first few classes. If they are doing this for 60% of the time the novelty will soon wear off and it's likely to be 60% wasted time.
  18. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    Chipping in from a different angle.

    For the last few years I've been working on getting a second science degree through the OU and I'm thankfully nearly there. Now for most of the modules I've been sent textbooks, which works well for me even though I'm dyslexic. It still takes time and commitment to get through the courses and it is effectively self teaching with some tutor input if you are really stuck. This works with the OU because the students are all adults and want to do the course.

    The module I was just working on was a different beast, no text books for it and it was pitched as an online only delivery, i.e. working solely from the computer. Now some found this ok but I was one of a good number of people that really couldn't get on with this method of delivery, this group included a wide range of ages and non dyslexics too. Again, committed adults can work around this and most people passed the module, I didn't but that's another story.

    Now applying my knowledge of teenagers to this experience I can tell you that it's going to be the ones that are keen to do well that are most likely to benefit from this idea. But frankly this is kids, on a computer, there is going to be messing around, there is going to be distractions and you'll still have bad behaviour, in fact it may be worse. You could find half of the kids revolting down to not being able to engage with the learning as effectively, there's also those that will see it as a doss. Not to mention all the other objections that have been raised.
    Laphroig and sparkleghirl like this.
  19. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    Totally agree with @Moony above. It strikes me as a naively idealistic idea.

    When the teacher gets his class for the 40% of the time, s/he's going to find that some of the class have done the work and are ready for his input while many others haven't and aren't. More time will be wasted, the 40% teacher input time will be seriously degraded in quality as he tries to compensate for the lack of previous learning of half of his class and even those who did the independent online work will lose out.

    If you're happy to write off those who don't want to work independently online and those who can't work independently online, then this might work for the minority. But as a solution to education for all, it won't.
    Laphroig and Moony like this.
  20. Moony

    Moony Lead commenter

    You brought this on yourself......


    Yoda- and (deleted member) like this.

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