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Working hours?

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by redhedgehog, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. IknewKvothe

    IknewKvothe New commenter

    I was reading another thread, and saw several people saying that 10 hours a day was too much. This made me wonder what kind of hours people put in over the week. I know I do too many, but figured that’s because I’m a core subject lead in a middle school. I do 7:15 - 5:45 in school most days, then 3 or 4 hours at home. I do about 15 hours on an average weekend, planning and marking. It works out between 80-90 hours a week. How does this compare with others?
     
  2. 8sycamore

    8sycamore Occasional commenter

    Way more than I used to do. Way more. My students usually got excellent results. I didn't take any work home with me day-to-day. I prepared a lot of stuff in the summer, especially A Level resources. This was at hod level and SLT for a while.

    I couldn't sustain your hours.
     
  3. becky70

    becky70 Occasional commenter

    How's your life outside of work?
     
    mothergoose2013 likes this.
  4. funkyyay

    funkyyay New commenter

    Are you primary or secondary?

    What’s your role?

    That seems very excessive.
     
    mothergoose2013 likes this.
  5. Christopher  Curtis

    Christopher Curtis Occasional commenter

    80-90 hours a week! Absolutely ridiculous! I regarded the 50 hours I did in some years as too many.
     
  6. bevdex

    bevdex Star commenter

    At the moment I work on average 55 hours per week. It's still too much.
     
    mothergoose2013 and george1963 like this.
  7. Eszett

    Eszett New commenter

    I'm sorry, but if those are your work hours, that is not because you are a core subject lead in a middle school, but because you have no respect for yourself, your family or your colleagues. You are setting an unhealthy precedent that other teachers will be measured against, and you are enabling an exploitative system that ultimately hurts us teachers and the students alike.

    I work about 52 hours. Plus some work in holidays. That is alright, for me, but seems possible only because I have chosen not to take on any extra responsibilities whatsoever, which pretty much precludes any future career progression.
    As a PGCE/NQT, I worked around 65 hours. Gained a lot of weight and lost a lot of friends. Not ok.
     
  8. catbanj

    catbanj Occasional commenter

    I think that is really harsh.

    I am in a similar situation and work similar hours.

    Not through choice. Not through lack of respect for the people I really care about but because that is what is needed.

    It's not right. It's not healthy. It's not what I would choose but it has been the same in my last 2 schools and other MLs with similar roles locally are doing the same. It's what is expected when you are a middle leader working in a core subject. It does need to change.
     
  9. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    This is morally wrong, YOU re morally wrong, and it is never what is needed. You only THINK it is. I know what it is like, because I have been there, and was equally deluded.

    The word you are looking for is "No"

    the quality of education goes up when the hours teachers work goes down.

    I've done years of 80-90 hours per week, but looking back I can see how stupid it was.

    I was colluding in my own abuse.

    These days 65 is my limit. Average over half a term. And I stick to it, and I have a life.

    Working those sorts of hours will kill you. And I mean literally and figuratively. I have attended the funerals. And even while you are alive, it isn't living, because it is just burning up the months and years of your life and taking them away from you.

    You are also allowing your family to be mistreated, and other colleagues, and you are not effectively educating the children this is all supposed to be for.
     
  10. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    no it isn't, and no , it is nothing to do with being a ML, in fact my hours were longer as a classroom teacher than as a middle leader, and if ML is doing those hours, they are likely imposing the same or longer on the staff they manage, so not only are you colluding in your own abuse, but in the abuse of others as well
     
  11. dunnocks

    dunnocks Star commenter

    exactly
     
    ridleyrumpus likes this.
  12. HolyMahogany

    HolyMahogany New commenter

    Hi

    You are working far too many hours and this is unsustainable. In time this will have a serious effect on both your physical and mental health.
    You could try carrying out an audit of how you spend your time to see if you are working as smartly as possible. Review an average week and record how much time you spend on each aspect of the job.
    For example - Number of hours on,
    • Teaching
    • Marking & assessment
    • Planning & preparation
    • Administration
    • Middle leadership role
    The bulk of your time should be spent on the first 3 areas and your marking and assessment and planning and preparation time should never exceed your teaching time ideally I would suggest a ratio of 30 to 40 minutes of planning and marking for each hours teaching in an average week. At the moment it sounds as if your lessons are taking longer to plan and assess than they do to teach. Obviously some weeks will require more assessment time if you are doing AFL exercises or writing reports.
    Make sure that your marking and assessment is concise and effective. Assessment should be based on learning objectives, you could print labels for the LO's, these can be stuck into a book and ticked when achieved, with a suitable AFL comment - one short sentence is enough. Use a stamp to record verbal feedback in lessons - this is often more valuable than written feedback.
    Stickers and stamps are a great way to mark - remember you are often repeating the same comment in each book.
    Share planning and resources with colleagues in your department, each person could focus on an area of the curriculum.
    Remember the example you set effects everyone else, If you create an expectation of excessive workload for everyone else you are putting them under huge pressure, you have a duty of care for the colleagues you manage.
    We are losing young teachers at an alarming rate because of stress and workload, you need to set them a better example.

    All the best
     
  13. george1963

    george1963 Occasional commenter

    I have worked long hours but only in a school I stayed far too long in. Most schools I can do 7.30 to 4pm give or take staff meetings. It depends on the school. One school for example organised parents 'evenings' during the day and supply teachers covered the class while we met with parents through a time slot systems. So organised schools that focus on the basics/priorities mean I get the job done to everyone's (?! - mostly everyone's) satisfaction are the schools I look for now.
    Tired, headless chicken teachers are not for me and neither are the schools they choose to work in. :)
     
  14. secretteacher2357

    secretteacher2357 Occasional commenter

    I do 7.30 to 5.30 every day. I don't take work home except in very rare circumstances.
    I spent several years as a ML and nearly killed myself with the workload. I went back to classroom teaching and now I focus only on what I'm expected to do in the classroom.
    I have turned down a TLR because the extra work associated with it is not worth the extra money.
    I'm hoping to move towards retirement calmly and with as little stress as possible.
     
  15. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Some people like to tot up their working hours and present them as a virtue signal.
    There is no teaching job, Middle Lead or otherwise, which does not require lots of hours. In fact there is no ceiling on it. You can work all day every day and there is still no point when you can say "there is nothing else to be done"
    So for me working hours are simple-I do what has to be done, and I do it really well, I'll do a bit more if I feel like it, but only if my family are doing other stuff. In fact, let's put this another way-I do as little as possible.
    This is not the same as slacking. It is, as pointed out in another post, self respect and a love of life.
    It's a job.
    Somebody who works 90hs per week on a teaching job is basically either somebody who does not love their life or somebody attempting to virtue signal. It is not the 90 hours I feel sorry for, but the choice to do the 90 hours, the choice to lead an un rich life.
     
  16. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    According to the DfE workload survey that is almost exactly the national average hours worked for full time classroom teachers in term time.
     
    agathamorse likes this.
  17. Happystarling6

    Happystarling6 New commenter

    Second year of teaching and rarely do more than 40, wouldn't be the teacher I am if I was constantly tired! Not sure I'd want to become HOD though!
     
  18. Piscean1

    Piscean1 Occasional commenter

    I work at least 60. Again, it's still too much. Employers don't care. If they did, our planning and marking policies would be less onerous and scrutiny would be dialled down.

    I worked stupid hours like 90 a week in my NQT year and found it made me very ill very quickly. I will never return to those hours.

    Our SLT have been very clear that we are "aiming for Outstanding when Ofsted come". Well, that's fine. They might be but I'll be happy with good. I have no interest in obliterating what little work-life balance I do have just to achieve an arbitrary label given by a deeply flawed organisation. I wish them luck with it. I will continue to do my job and do it well but I am not prioritising it above all else.
     
  19. Lucilla90

    Lucilla90 Occasional commenter

    I used to do 60-70 hours as a matter of course. It nearly did me in. No life, no time for friends and family.

    I learnt so much doing a longer term supply, later. Worked 8.30 -4pm max. in school. Did all marking and planning on site. Never took anything home, unless occasionally paid extra.

    Had a good level of success and was praised for the children’s improved behaviour and progress. You do not have to grind yourself into the ground.
     
  20. surf kitty too

    surf kitty too New commenter

    I do 7.30 to 4.00 in school, stay later for meetings. Some nights at home I do absolutely no school work, on occasions I maybe do an hour on the laptop whilst watching tv with hubby. On a Sunday I do a couple of hours prep for the week. When reports need doing I have to do a couple more hours but I can generally get it all done in my lunchtimes, and that includes getting all practical equipment ready as I have no technician! I value my life more than my work.
     

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