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Workers' Rights etc Post-Brexit

Discussion in 'Personal' started by MAGAorMIGA, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. Burndenpark

    Burndenpark Star commenter

    Isn't that around the same percentage that supported the idea of either Leaving or Remaining in the EU?
  2. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    You have forgotten the end of a world war, the end of rationing and the recovery of a bombed nation. We couldn't afford to subsidise all the industries being undercut by cheaper foreign production although we tried with Scottish shipbuilding.
  3. Photo51

    Photo51 Established commenter

    And the same percentage as reduced rate inheritance tax and the discount Time out was offering on brunch.
  4. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    That has to be the funniest thing I have read in quite a long time; John Redwood complaining about EU competition rules stopping subsidised industry. He knows no shame.

    Like you he blames the EU not for being the cause of any decline, but for not having the power to stop a sovereign government (Thatcher's) enacting it's own industrial strategy. One I expect Redwood supported as a good tory boy.

    I suppose anybody can see the light, maybe he will want to become Corbyn's Minister for nationalised railways :D:D.
  5. Burndenpark

    Burndenpark Star commenter

    Very nice- but not really linked to the EU are they?

    However you posted:
    when talking about the EU and democracy- if that is "only" then you must also think that both Brexit and Remain were both on a par- and so not worth changing the status quo?
  6. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Strange how workers rights are being used to undermine Brexit. When I worked in Industry my conditions were equal to or better than they would be today. During the 70's I had full sick pay for one month after one years service rising to 3 months full pay at five years service. Flexi-time was used widely thus enabling an hour or two off without loss of pay when needed. The unions were strong in protecting workers rights and Management were keen to work with them in cases where a dispute arose. We had 5 weeks paid leave per year (pro rata in first year). Office and shop floor working conditions were good and normal meal breaks were taken. There were no zero hours contracts, not much by way of part time either although some secretarial staff (mothers) were permitted to work school hours.
    So, how much progress has been made since we joined the CM?
  7. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Do you dispute his figures?
  8. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    Define what you call democracy, please
    We certainly did not have the choice to refuse the laws and dictates of the EU..even if we attacked them in the formation stage.
  9. Burndenpark

    Burndenpark Star commenter

    Sounds good - I wonder how that was achieved?
    Ah- I see- so our elected politicians changed things and since they changed them and remained better than the EU's minimum standards they were able to do so.

    Just think if people like you hadn't left as economic migrants in the 80s and if the likes of Olds hadn't voted Tory- then our elected politicians wouldn't have been able to lessen our rights.

    BTW- you are talking of your own experience- not the legal minima that existed in the 70s- some people didn't have anything like the conditions you enjoyed.
  10. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Prosperity of the 1950s[edit]
    The 1950s and 1960s were prosperous times and saw continued modernisation of the economy.[161] Representative was the construction of the first motorways, for example. Britain maintained and increased its financial role in the world economy, and used the English language to promote its educational system to students from around the globe. Unemployment was relatively low during this period, and the standard of living continued to rise, with more new private and council housing developments and the number of slum properties diminishing. Churchill and the Conservatives were back in power following the 1951 elections, but they largely continued the welfare state policies as set out by the Labour Party in the late 1940s.

    Butlins holiday camp in Pwllheli, Wales in the 1950s. Holiday camps symbolized the newfound prosperity and leisure of postwar Britain
    During the "golden age" of the 1950s and 1960s, unemployment in Britain averaged only 2%. As prosperity returned, Britons became more family centred.[162] Leisure activities became more accessible to more people after the war. Holiday camps, which had first opened in the 1930s, became popular holiday destinations in the 1950s – and people increasingly had the money to pursue their personal hobbies. The BBC's early television service was given a major boost in 1953 with the coronation of Elizabeth II, attracting a worldwide audience of twenty million, plus tens of millions more by radio, proving an impetus for middle-class people to buy televisions. In 1950, just 1% owned television sets; by 1965 25% did. As austerity receded after 1950 and consumer demand kept growing, the Labour Party hurt itself by shunning consumerism as the antithesis of the socialism it demanded.[163]

    Small neighbourhood shops were increasingly replaced by chain stores and shopping centres, with their wide variety of goods, smart advertising, and frequent sales. Cars were becoming a significant part of British life, with city-centre congestion and ribbon developments springing up along many of the major roads. These problems led to the idea of the green belt to protect the countryside, which was at risk from development of new housing units.[164]

    The post-war period witnessed a dramatic rise in the average standard of living, with a 40% rise in average real wages from 1950 to 1965.[165] Workers in traditionally poorly paid semi-skilled and unskilled occupations saw a particularly marked improvement in their wages and living standards. In terms of consumption, there was more equality, especially as the landed gentry was hard pressed to pay its taxes and had to reduce its level of consumption. As a result of wage rises, consumer spending also increased by about 20% during the same period, while economic growth remained at about 3%. In addition, the last food rations were ended in 1954 while hire-purchase controls were relaxed in the same year. As a result of these changes, large numbers of the working classes were able to participate in the consumer market for the first time.[166]

    Entitlement to various fringe benefits was improved. In 1955, 96% of manual labourers were entitled to two weeks' holiday with pay, compared with 61% in 1951. By the end of the 1950s, Britain had become one of the world's most affluent countries, and by the early Sixties, most Britons enjoyed a level of prosperity that had previously been known only to a small minority of the population.[167] For the young and unattached there was, for the first time in decades, spare cash for leisure, clothes, and luxuries. In 1959, Queen magazine declared that "Britain has launched into an age of unparalleled lavish living." Average wages were high while jobs were plentiful, and people saw their personal prosperity climb even higher. Prime Minister Harold Macmillan claimed that "the luxuries of the rich have become the necessities of the poor." As summed up by R. J. Unstead,

    "Opportunities in life, if not equal, were distributed much more fairly than ever before and\ the weekly wage-earner, in particular, had gained standards of living that would have been almost unbelievable in the thirties."[168]
    As noted by historian Martin Pugh:

    "Keynesian economic management enabled British workers to enjoy a golden age of full employment which, combined with a more relaxed attitude towards working mothers, led to the spread of the two-income family. Inflation was around 4 per cent, money wages rose from an average of £8 a week in 1951 to £15 a week by 1961, home-ownership spread from 35 per cent in 1939 to 47 per cent by 1966, and the relaxation of credit controls boosted the demand for consumer goods."[169]
    The number one selection for the housewife was a washing machine. Ownership jumped from 18 percent in 1955 to 29 percent in 1958, and 60 percent in 1966.[170] By 1963, 82% of all private households had a television, 72% a vacuum cleaner, and 30% a refrigerator. John Burnett notes that ownership had spread down the social scale so that the gap between consumption by professional and manual workers had considerably narrowed. The provision of household amenities steadily improved in the late decades of the century. From 1971 to 1983, households having the sole use of a fixed bath or shower rose from 88% to 97%, and those with an internal WC from 87% to 97%. In addition, the number of households with central heating almost doubled during that same period, from 34% to 64%. By 1983, 94% of all households had a refrigerator, 81% a colour television, 80% a washing machine, 57% a deep freezer, and 28% a tumble-drier.[171]
  11. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Women are treated better in the work place? Less racism? Unions treat women better and show less racism? A worker doesn't have to have his ticket to get a job; a ticket given at the end of apprenticeship by a local union boss. How was work handed out round the docks or building sites?
    Geoff Thomas likes this.
  12. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    I dispute his inference; France & Germany managed to retain more of their industries than the UK under the same rules (no they didn't cheat). All your gripes are due to the UK industrial strategy, not EU membership.
  13. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Thanks for agreeing: repairing the damage of the war. Also women going back to housekeeping.
  14. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

  15. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    You don't know what you've got until it's gone.
  16. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    Yep, they were certainly the best of times:

    Yet, as the economic historian Richard Roberts notes in When Britain Went Bust, his absorbing, lively account: “The years from 1964 to 1967 witnessed essentially a continuous sterling crisis.” From the mid-1940s to mid-1970s, Britain was the heaviest user of IMF resources. The word was that the IMF’s ritzy Washington HQ was paid for by the interest on UK loans. Britain had emerged from world war two with heavy debts and an unsustainable initial exchange rate in the Bretton Woods system. There was also the problem of sterling balances, private overseas holdings of the currency used to finance trade in the sterling area. As holders sold sterling when the exchange rate looked vulnerable, they accelerated declines in the currency.

  17. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    That damned war again.
    Nanook_rubs_it likes this.
  18. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Also hasn't UK industrial output only begun to shrink since 2000?


    For most of our time in the EU [and EEC before it] the output was growing. Or am I reading it wrong?

    The decline of some heavy industries [coal mining, ship building] only seems to have slowed a general trend.
  19. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter


  20. Photo51

    Photo51 Established commenter

    Going full Cathy there.
    No. The turnout for the referendum was 72%' twice tthat of Euro 2014.

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