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Witholding August Pay

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by rhenium1963, Oct 22, 2019.

  1. rhenium1963

    rhenium1963 New commenter

    Can an Independent School (in the UK) egally withold your August pay if you have an overseas contract that starts on the 1st of August.
  2. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Because presumably you weren't available to work for them in August as you were overseas?

    Also presumably you were trying to pull a fast one and be paid by both schools?
    IanG likes this.
  3. rhenium1963

    rhenium1963 New commenter

  4. rhenium1963

    rhenium1963 New commenter

    Firstly, No one is trying to pull a fast one. Secondly, August is part of the teachers holiday period which has been earned. Furthermore, I know of a case where someone succesfully legally challenged a school that attempted to withold his August pay after securing an overseas.
  5. JohnJCazorla

    JohnJCazorla Star commenter

    Probably this is a legal question best resolved at that level. Perhaps your union could help there?

    Is there any provision in the contract for the pay to be withheld.? Or in the pay policy itself? Suspect not but given that it has been withheld implies that you've asked politely for it and no pay is forthcoming.

    Incidentally it's barely a 'fast one' as I presume your employment at the international school is likely to finish on the 31st July, leaving you unpaid over an August in the future.
  6. rhenium1963

    rhenium1963 New commenter

    Thanks that's constructive and helpful advice.
  7. CWadd

    CWadd Star commenter

    If you resigned for 31st July - Yes.

    If for 31st August - no.

    Talk to your Union.
    jlishman2158 and rhenium1963 like this.
  8. IanG

    IanG Occasional commenter

    If your new contract overseas started the 1st of August then I struggle to see how you expected to be paid in your former role at independent school for the same period? Did you expect to be paid twice?
  9. physicsfanboy

    physicsfanboy Occasional commenter

    They have no right to withhold your August pay. You have worked all year and they have (like all schools) been paying you 39 weeks pay over 52 weeks. Keeping Augusts pay is theft.
    There is nothing wrong with being paid by two schools. They would not expect you to be working for them, it's none of their business who else you work for in that time. Give them hell.
  10. rhenium1963

    rhenium1963 New commenter

    Thank you for comments. One is being paid for the full academic year that they have served.
  11. rhenium1963

    rhenium1963 New commenter

    Yes teachers do get paid twice at times. Notably when they work during Easter
    FrankWolley and agathamorse like this.
  12. thebookyouwish

    thebookyouwish New commenter

    What was your contract? Did you resign with the proper notice?

    If I quit and got a job in a supermarket straight away I would still expect to be paid for the holidays I had accrued throughout the year. Shouldn't make a difference what you are doing next. That is state though where the contract runs until the end of August.

    Some people have summer jobs - what business is it of the school what you do in your earned holiday time?
  13. rhenium1963

    rhenium1963 New commenter

    This accords with natural justice. Holidays and Pension accrued should be duly paid.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2019
  14. annascience2012

    annascience2012 New commenter

    In every contract I've had at a school, there's been a bit in there saying that I can't accept any other employment without the permission of the head. I really sympathise with the OP, but I guess that might be in his contract and so, by accepting this other job, the school is in its rights to deem the contract terminated. I agree he's not attempting to pull a fast one...it's just the way it is. As for the idea of August pay being holiday you've "earned", (while I think this is morally true) it's not got any legal foundation. I hope the best for the OP but I think it's a slim chance you can get that pay, if you have that bit in your contract like I do.
  15. annascience2012

    annascience2012 New commenter

    (This is speaking as someone that does have two jobs myself, ie I got permission to do the other one at the same time as teaching. So I read that bit of my contract carefully)
    katelewis1008 likes this.
  16. annascience2012

    annascience2012 New commenter

    Ps just one last thing, about my legal understanding of the way holiday works in teaching... in the contracts I've had, I've actually had no "annual leave" mentioned, that I've noticed. In other jobs, eg friends of mine who work as lawyers, programmers etc, they accrue annual leave pro-rata throughout the year, 25 days a year or similar. (So if they just work 6 months there, 12.5 days etc). Teaching doesn't have that, we don't accrue annual leave, that's my understanding of my contract, anyway.
    Piranha likes this.
  17. thebookyouwish

    thebookyouwish New commenter

    Scrutinise your contract and go from there. Maybe citizens advice if you are not in a union?

    I don't have anything in my contract currently (most of my colleagues moonlighting) but AnnaScience's post has reminded me that I did have a job where it was mentioned.
    annascience2012 and rhenium1963 like this.
  18. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    There are some blanket comments about accrued holidays here, but what actually matters is your contract. If it says that you need to be available to work in August, or that you must get permission to have a second job, then the school would have a point. If, like with STPCD, the school cannot direct you outside term time (including INSET days) then I don't think they can. This is assuming that your contract allows you to resign with effect from the end of August, and that you actually did that. If you gave a date before then, the school could say they agreed to it and let you leave then.
    JohnJCazorla likes this.
  19. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    I don't get this.
    If you are not allowed to be employed alongside your regular school contract,tehn how do people manage to be exam markers,weekend bar staff etc etc.
    A conventional school contract with the six week break does not determine what you do in those six weeks, whether employment or travel.
    If the argument is that OP was not available for work, then that crushes the argument that part timers should not go in on days which are not their regular days. Summerholidays are not "regular days"
    The only exception would be if OP still have remaining directed hours and had arranged by mutual agreement to use Summer holiday time to fulfill certain duties. And then reneged on that agreement.

    i am disappointed that somebody has implied some sort of greed on the part of OP. Many people take up employement in the Summer, many people leave teaching altogether and go straight on to work in August yet still receive their school pay.

    It depends entirely on when OP had given their notice in for. I'd expect it to have been for end of August. So they must be paid for August.

    If you look at the way this has occurred too, it lacks civility. No prior explanation. Just an assumption. And conveniently OP is no longer there to complain face to face.
    I would dispute this as vigorously as possible. It is them being chancy.

    Unless there is something else in the contract, but thatI doubt, because of the fact of OP posting the query at all.
  20. Piranha

    Piranha Star commenter

    Yes, that does seem to be true of conventional school contracts, but a private school could do it. It is certainly true of some contracts outside teaching - I had one. Schools are often keen for their teachers to do exam marking, so are likely to give permission, and to allow them too attend meetings. But perhaps not bar work.

    Whether such a contract would be legally seen as unfair, I cannot say, and we also haven't heard anything about the OP's actual contract or the date given to leave. It would be helpful to know if there are any relevant things we haven't heard. However, in financial matters like this, we can say that something is unfair (which I suspect this is) but we can't help any more. Really, proper legal advice would be needed, perhaps from a union. If there really are not plausible grounds for the school withholding the money, the OP could take action for unpaid wages. If this link is correct, you need to get on with it, as it claims you only have three months from when it was due. https://unpaidbritain.org/guide-to-claiming-unpaid-wages/
    annascience2012 likes this.

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