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Will we ever get un biased information and a free vote?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by oldsomeman, Jan 18, 2016.

  1. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    Just annoyed that the Stay in folks are being given spaces in the media and the stay out folks are barely mentioned.
    Talk about bias to change people opinions.
    When will the truth and bare facts be actually stated..or once again are we the victims of fraud and hypocrisy.
  2. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Not from either side

    Well we all will get a free vote in the referendum (allegedly)
    Will politicians get a free vote?
    Depends on the parties
    racroesus likes this.
  3. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    A future decided on lies and half truths then....n wonder the people dont trust politicians and leaders.
  4. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    No such thing as 'unbiased'.
    anotherauntsally likes this.
  5. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    The EU would do itself great favours if it just held itself accountable to referendums every 6-10 years. That way all the rubbish about more jobs, money for every household and fraud, corruption etc would have to be proven or defended.

    As it is now, we know that 'NO' votes are either ignored of read as 'NOT YET BUT SOON' whereas a 'YES" is read as forever - remember we are only getting the vote now after 40 odd years because of Nigel Farage.

    In essence, just become democratic and be held accountable.
    artboyusa likes this.
  6. Crowbob

    Crowbob Lead commenter

    What have you been watching/reading? I have seen/read those supporting "Out" on a wide range of media. Farage, Hannan, Carswell for example have been quite prominent.
  7. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    You have to go digging for information.
    But the reality is that there isn't a list of easily understood "bare facts". It's a hugely complex issue and each "fact" has an impact on lots of other things.
    Than again, I'm not sure why you're asking because you seem to have made your mind up already and are just looking for justification.
    baitranger, racroesus and RedQuilt like this.
  8. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    I am looking for justification for all the claims
    I am tending to out.but in the end i will,as a citizen, have to go with the majority vote. However, i would like to make an informed vote and go not with the best package idea but based upon evidence as far as possible.
    I agree its complex...but we have wedded ourselves so close to union that the leaders are frightened to chose their own way,if they have the guts to do so. NO political party seems to want to( except maybe UKIP and they cant get their act in order although i will admit listening to the leaders speeches in Brussels i admire his challenge to the status quo rather than the cosying up of our so called leaders....to much of a gravy train verses what is really the best.
  9. lapinrose

    lapinrose Star commenter

    I firmly believe that we're better off by being in the E.U., however we need to fully participate in all aspects rather than just picking out what suits us and what doesn't.
  10. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    The more i look at the organisation the Orwellian I see the EU becoming.
    I would suppose what you say in essence is good.its because we elect non-seen folk to be out MEP's.they never report back.our media ignores its working unless its a 'new' law which seems to go against the UK. The leaders there are indeed not accountable and cant even agree on sets of accounts for many years past.and we, as members of this land, have little say other than to threaten leaders,cause civil unrest or bombard institutions and groups with letters ,etc
    yet we need the crowd to guard up hopefully against outside threats such as Russia.but can it be done without just becoming part of a 'mass' state in which the individual is worth little in favour of the whole?
  11. PaulDG

    PaulDG Occasional commenter

    Many are 'matters of opinion'. All are 'justified' in that someone, somewhere, thinks what they're saying is correct but there's little objective truth.

    Why? What has given you that bias?

    We have no factual basis for historical comparison since we cannot compare two near-identical planet Earths differing only in the single respect of one of them had the UK join the EC in the late 60s and the other did not.

    Likewise, we have no factual basis for future prediction - the range of possible outcomes is so vast and, since no country has ever left the EU, no hard data to base a "scientific" prediction on.

    It comes down to opinion.

    In my opinion, we have considerable factual benefits of EU membership - rights to travel & work anywhere in the EU, common set of trade regulations, etc., that we risk giving up if we exit.

    The "Outs" may well be right that if we left, the EU would be so keen to carry on doing business with us that nothing of significance would change.

    But they could be wrong. If we left, the EU would have one less centre-right voice at the table; the EU could become a little more protectionist, a little less interested in allowing free imports from an offshore tax haven...

    Foreign businesses that currently provide a lot of high value jobs (the ones where the employee earns enough to pay a lot of tax) and they do that because of easy access to the EU. They might or might not shift their businesses to the mainland (or to Ireland) if we left.

    We don't know, but I don't see the advantage of taking the risk.

    Others obviously disagree. IMV, those 'others' often seem to be guided by their vision of an imaginary past where Britain could do whatever she liked and the world was desperate to buy whatever we produced.

    As we don't have the world's largest military any more and our 'colonies' are essentially a small set of islands somewhere in the South Atlantic that Jeremy Corbyn seems to want to give away anyway, I really don't see that argument.

    But perhaps that's just me.
    baitranger and racroesus like this.
  12. PaulDG

    PaulDG Occasional commenter

    An example or two would be nice. Because, from my point of view, that looks a lot more like Daily Mail propaganda than anything I recognise in the EU.
  13. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    Trouble is Lapirose how or what is fully?
    One aspect is to acknowledge we are all European and not citizens of a nation/country.We then are ruled by leaders who we know not, we do as we are told and we abide by all decisions assuming those MEPs make decisions which are in our best interest.yet it probably the remoteness of such decision making which tends to upset...'they' are voting for 'us' but do they ask the 'us' what we think?
    We all need a sense of belonging.i suspect that based on a self belief that each nation think its the best and so fights for its sovereignty.I have never felt European.only British,UK GB etc and have seen others acting on their own behalf, not for the 'Union'
  14. T34

    T34 Lead commenter

    The EU seems to be more of a threat to Russia than the other way around.
  15. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    So their bombers are just sight seeing when near UK air space?


    www.telegraph.co.uk › ... › Defence
  16. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

  17. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Yes, the EU is actively engaged in military operations against Russian neighbours... [ LINK ]

    And has seized Russian territory... [ LINK ]

    And gone to war with Russian neighbours ... [ LINK ]

    And the EU has launched cyber attacks on Russia... [ LINK ]

  18. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    Evil prospers because no one does anything about it!
    Ignorance ,said Dickens, is to be feared the most of the 2 wants.
  19. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Considering recent accusations about the role of the Kremlin in the anti-EU message, not sure any information, positive or negative, can be called impartial.
  20. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    What evil is the EU doing? Seriously, I'm curious.

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