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Will Brexit break up the UK?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by FrankWolley, Nov 6, 2018.

  1. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    At least as far as Northern Ireland is concerned (first) and then, perhaps, Scotland?

    Biggest poll conducted since EU referendum finds 54 per cent would now choose to stay in bloc - but most don’t mind if Brexit means Northern Ireland leaving the UK
    • Survey of 20,000, largest since 2016 referendum, found swing away from Leave
    • Respondents would now back staying in the EU by 54 per cent to 46 per cent
    • The findings could help sway the mood of Labour MPs in backing May's Brexit

    slingshotsally likes this.
  2. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    What is the point of asking how people would vote in a second referendum when the proposed deal is unknown?

    Channel 4 has wasted its money by asking these questions a couple of weeks too early.
  3. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    In that case the British people are probably even less concerned on whether Northern Ireland should stay in the customs union and the Single market. That's what the people of Northern Ireland voted for in the Referendum anyway. Time for Mrs May to get tough on the DUP.
  4. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    I think it is now just about certain that the whole of the UK will stay in the Customs Union (but not the single market) until such time as a free trade deal is concluded to make an Irish backstop unnecessary.

    That is, I believe, what the cabinet are discussing as I type this.

    (On the question of Northern Ireland, though, I do know an awful lot of people who say it would be much better for the six counties to be transferred to the Republic, leaving Leo Varadkar to pay for them in future, and to sort out his own borders. It is not through any dislike of the Irish as much as frustration that such a small problem is taking such a disproportionate amount of time to overcome.)
  5. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Indeed - also appears they refused to let people answer 'not decided' which is weird - 20% do not seem to care about the deal going to a second referendum, for example. Yet everyone asked was 100% certain in their 'remain or leave' stance?
  6. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    Pardon? What is the point of a referendum when the proposed deal is unknown?

    What indeed.
  7. Bobbbs

    Bobbbs Occasional commenter

    And that's why the Irish people are angry at English stupidity.

    Do you not remember the Troubles? Small problem. Christ above.
  8. CraigCarterSmith

    CraigCarterSmith Senior commenter

    probably should have some vague idea of what we voted for.............surely
    slingshotsally likes this.
  9. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    The only point was to ask people if they wished to remain in the EU or not. Nothing more.
    There is no mechanism to negotiate a deal with the EU before triggering Article 50.

    Impossible, because our future relationship with the EU is still being negotiated. That is how Article 50 works.
  10. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Interesting to hear Sammy Wilson of the DUP on R4 a few minutes ago - apparently there is 'no problem' over the Irish border, and we should just let it remain open... He claims the idea that there IS a problem has been invented by the EU and Irish Republic. o_O

    To say he seemed, let us say, a bit lacking in brain power would not be an exaggeration. I suspect the number of those listening who concluded 'oh, for goodness sake, let's just get rid of Northern Ireland' would be huge...
  11. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    Sad truths here:

    Gavin Esler Retweeted Simon Coveney

    The saddest thing when talking to Irish politicians is that they say the past 25 years have seen such profoundly good Dublin-London relations now being eroded by the British government & Brexit.

    Gavin Esler added,
    Simon CoveneyVerified account@simoncoveney
    The Irish position remains consistent and v clear⁩ that a “time-limited backstop” or a backstop that could be ended by UK unilaterally would never be agreed to by IRE or EU. These ideas are not backstops at all + don’t deliver on…
    33 replies613 retweets1,273 likes
  12. eljefeb90

    eljefeb90 Senior commenter

    Possibly. The referendum was massively divisive . It certainly highlighted the different political landscape found in Scotland and Northern Ireland. It brought into stark focus how powerless the Scottish assembly is in the UK context and how the predominantly left of centre Scottish political culture is overridden by a more right wing England. Demographically, Scotland has stagnated and there are 11 English for every Scot. This leads to a massive power imbalance in which the Scots can be overlooked.In addition, the general arrogance and basic lack of appreciation of Northern Ireland and Scotland's views as well as the general incompetence of the government will undoubtedly have convinced quite a few waiverers in Scotland that independence in the EU may well be preferable. Northern Ireland with its sectarian politics and it s lack of a functioning executive is harder to read. The effect of the DUP 's deal and the intractable nature of the border has managed to annoy both Remainers and Brexiters in Britain. There is little good will towards the province in the rest of the UK. Who knows how much longer English tax payers will be prepared to fork out to Ulster, especially if it's agricultural sector is adversely hit by Brexit, or if, God forbid, the paramilitaries use it as a pretext to commit some outrage.
    monicabilongame likes this.

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