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Will a PGCE (Non-QTS) allow me to teach overseas? I already have QTS and three years experience...

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by daniel_laddiman1, Dec 26, 2018.

  1. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    Most countries accept the QTS route, that is a fact,

    You do not need a PGCE to be able to teach like you suggest I learnt on the job with a fantastic mentor, I have worked in some great schools and they don't seem to have a problem with my teaching despite never studied methods to teach my subject, if it's a big mystery to you, how these thousands of teachers manage to teach then I suggest you go and watch some of these teachers teach, I have seen lots of teach who didn't go the PGCE route who are fantastic teachers, hard to believe isn't it that people can be a great teacher without completing a 5000 word essay.

    Some countries don't accept the QTS route, but that doesn't make it right like Dubai only accepting degrees in there teaching subject.

    These countries are missing out on some amazing teachers because of there silly rules.
  2. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    "There" silly rules, willow78? If you are going to post something on an international forum for teachers, perhaps it might be a good idea to learn the rules of spelling and grammar. Not many international schools will be interested in a teacher's CV if it is full of careless errors.
    sparklesparkle likes this.
  3. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    Its great for me as I just turned down a job in Dubai at a middle of the road school. I was offered 15k AED and a 3 bedroom apartment plus usual benefits, I countered with 20k and a villa which the school responded with 18k and villa.

    What price can a maths teacher demand I wonder.
  4. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    I thought you were better than that, this isn't a forum for picking up people's spelling or punctuation (something I struggle with being dyslexic). This isn't an application either, I make sure it is fully checked my wife who is much better at spotting my errors that I miss.

    Again this hasn't caused me any problems getting jobs in the UK and international although I have work extra hard at times to make sure this doesn't happen.
  5. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    True, I would benefit too, having a degree in my teaching subject, silly rule though and with the amount of schools and jobs in Dubai, they might to change it soon.
  6. february31st

    february31st Established commenter

    But unfortunately the school was unsuitable for my children to attend as Arabic would be the most common language spoken in the playground.

    But the top schools in the UAE attract enough candidates with suitable qualifications and for the rest the MoE has a pool of well qualified candidates.
    willow78 likes this.
  7. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    You didn't say that most countries "accept" the QTS route, willow78. You said that most countries train their teachers that way. This is manifestly untrue. My PGDE wasn't recognised in a few countries because it was too vocational and not academic enough!

    I didn't say I had a problem with your teaching. Nor did I say it is a mystery how these teachers manage to teach. You need to read what was written (and I would suggest this is an essential skill in an educator). I said that I didn't understand how you could teach without studying methods for teaching your subject. That really is a mystery to me, and it's part of the reason why your qualification isn't recognised in Scotland and NI.

    And if you want to blow your own trumpet about how great a teacher you are, willow78, learn some basic English grammar.
  8. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    You wouldn't benefit, willow78, because you don't have a teaching qualification.

    If you consider it to be a silly rule, you should contact the teaching councils of Scotland and NI. They insist on this rule too. No-one gets onto a teacher training course in either country without submitting a degree transcript. Some people are even asked to do extra modules if their transcript isn't up to scratch.
  9. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    It isn't a spelling or punctuation problem, willow78. It's very basic English grammar. Given how much you are blowing your own trumpet, hippo is right to pick up on it.
  10. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    Another who has to resort to picking up my grammar, it's a bit pathetic, as I've explained I have dyslexia, so unless I read over my posts I often make mistakes, I certainly am not going to spend time on here reading over my comments, just to make the likes of you or Hippo happy. it doesn't stop me bring a good teacher.

    I am a qualified teacher so can work in Dubai so again you are wrong.

    just because Scotland and NI don't accept it doesn't make it right or less worthwhile, for a start this is about teaching intenationally not in the UK.
  11. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    I think I'll leave it there, we aren't get to g anywhere, not worth arguing with people who have to resort to getting personal I'm here to help others not critise them.
  12. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    Dyslexia causes problems with writing, willow78. It doesn't affect grammar. I've taught enough kids with dyslexia to know this. And depending on what you teach, basic grammar errors could well affect your teaching. Parents expect teachers to be aware of grammar, particularly when they are paying fees for international schools.

    You can't work in Dubai without a BEd or a postgraduate diploma/certificate in education. I'm afraid you are mistaken about that too. If your course isn't recognised in parts of the UK, why should it be recognised internationally?
  13. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    As I've said I'm done, I'll spend my time helping people on here, no time or respect for people who have to get personal, particularly one who think they know it all.
  14. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    Willow78, isn't it you who thinks you know it all? You are making assertions which are factually incorrect. For the benefit of everyone, they need to be corrected. For example, you say "Most countries accept the QTS route, that is a fact,". It is not a fact. It is plain wrong. Many countries don't even accept a PGCE/PGDE for work in their state schools. And many won't give you a visa unless you have a BEd or postgrad qualification.

    You also say "You do not need a PGCE to be able to teach". This is also plain wrong. In Scotland and Northern Ireland you can't register with the teaching council if you don't have one. And without registration, you can't teach.

    Please indicate where people have been personal with you. If I have made ad hominem comments without realising, I am happy to apologise.
  15. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    sparklesparkle, I am afraid that I must disagree with you. There is an infamous group of schools in the Middle East where the fat is chewed (the rules of the TES mean that I cannot actually name this group). The schools in this notorious group often give jobs to people with no teaching qualifications. No PGCE, no BEd, no degree, no nothing. As far as I know, there is indeed a fat chewing school in Dubai, so it would perhaps be possible to get a teaching job (if you could call it that) without any qualifications at all.

    On the other hand, sparklesparkle, I must agree with the general point that you have made about fee-paying parents expecting teachers to have a good command of the English language. Yes, dyslexia (as the word itself suggests) means that you have a problem with the lexicon. This is why dyslexics usually have problems with letter reversals and letter recognition. I have never come across dyslexic students who could not distinguish between a singular and a plural noun. Punctuation also does not have much to do with spelling!
  16. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    I was hoping this was done, the point isn't about the dyslexia it the point of why you needed to mention my mistake or mistakes in grammar, I'm not great at English which is obvious but what has this to do with this thread, why bring it up?

    Are we saying that because I put the wrong there/their on a forum about overseas teaching that I cannot be a good teacher or that it makes the GTP scheme look poor, otherwise it's irrelevant. I might make these mistakes on this type of forum or a text message but rarely in a school setting, I'd doubt the odd mistake would make much difference teaching my subject, I've certainly not had any complaints in 15 years.

    I'm still at the belief that the GTP etc should be treated equal to the PGCE, I've never known anyone with these qualifications struggle to get jobs in these in any countries except Canada and NZ, I have friends working in Dubai and Aus with this type of qualification..

    Also why are still me
  17. willow78

    willow78 Occasional commenter

    Half my post is missing, I hope this ends it and we can concentrate on helping people on here giving advice even if you don't agree with it.

    Happy New year to you both.
  18. Jason_Bourne_

    Jason_Bourne_ Occasional commenter

    Are you leaving China for Dubai?
  19. sparklesparkle

    sparklesparkle Established commenter

    Yes, I've read a lot about schools where fat is chewed over the years. Like the MOE UAE scheme they recruit unqualified "teachers". And I suspect there are very valid reasons as to why qualified teachers wouldn't be interested.
  20. dumbbells66

    dumbbells66 Lead commenter

    Im dyslexic like @willow78 and i have huge problems with punctuation. I either dont see it, or just dont know what to do with it. I usually trying to concentrate on my spelling. If you think dyslexia is just about spelling the you are talking out of your asre :)
    grasshopper2000 and willow78 like this.

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