1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Why we can't get a job

Discussion in 'Jobseekers' started by scienceteacha, Aug 18, 2012.

  1. You assume that myself and badger girl are not black, gay, lesbian, transgendered or bisexual, neither are any SLT and neither are any DH's or HT's.
    So you've been to all of them and all they talk about is discrimination? I would imagine that a fair amount of their time at a teaching conference is spent talking about teaching. The UK is not all like the village in Misommer Murders.

    As badgergirl has said, those unions exist because those people are teaching. Yet according to you, they are unlikely to get employment.
    Plenty of white, heterosexual people bring cases against their workplace. It's then called bullying rather than discrimination.
    Please don't start being ridiculous again. Of course discrimination exists, but it isn't on every single interview panel as you seem to like to suggest.
     
  2. anon8315

    anon8315 Established commenter

    Rubbish.
    That so looked ruder than it was, lol
     
  3. No i'm not, you are just trying to scaremonger.
    You could find examples of expensive legal cases about all and sundry in the workplace. Sexual harassment, bullying etc. Discrimination is not alone in this.
    The DM is an utter trash paper, you are not enhancing your argument by citing this.
    Please explain why an employer would need to discriminate against someone who was black, gay or transgender beause of monetary reasons.
    Yet on another forum you were boasting about how much funding you would be able to access and how HT's would love to get their hands on it. Which is it?
     
  4. les25paul

    les25paul Star commenter

    The problem on-line conservation has over "face to face" interactions is that its not always possible to get the "spirit" of the comment across. My comment was deliberately "tongue in cheek" as I could see that things were getting a little heated. My use of smileys failed to make this clear. Apologies if any offense was taken.
    To be 100% serious the comment I was trying to make was that I didn't believe that a younger person would automatically get a post over an older candidate. There could be any number of reasons specific to the individual circumstance.
    "Out on the town during the week" was intentionally a flippant comment in line with my general tone since no one can excuse that. "Sporting injuries" might have more substance but people can pick up injuries at any age and you could argue that those who avoid active lifestyles might be more prone to other complaints.
    I would hope that an interviewing panel selects the best candidate for the post on abilities and experience and not any other reason.
    Please excuse any spelling mistakes, I usually check but I'm off to bed now since I actually have a job interview tomorrow and putting my trust into a fair selection proceedure.
     
  5. My apologies lespaul, I missed the smileys and thought you were being serious. It appeared to me that through the thread all species/types of people were being identified as unable to get a job, the ovaltine must have pushed me over the edge[​IMG]
    Absolutely, in my opinion as an employer, the most strongest factor as to who you employ, is who demonstrates that they are the best at the job. I'm amazed, (and a little horrified if i'm honest), that so many people think that discrimination is so rife, against all manner of people.
    Some of us are luckier than others in 'sporting' areas.
    I truly believe most do. I'm sure there are some rogue ones out there, in the same way that there are some teachers that don't give a *****, every profession has it's cowboys but most panels would treat everyone fairly.
    How exciting. Good luck, I hope all goes well.
     
  6. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    Re the funding I attract, I have decided if you read the post carefully to utilise it on my own self employment. I do not want to waste more government money. The government wasted £20,000 training me to train to teach, as I cost more as a disabled teacher, why should they waste more money giving me employment in a school under some scheme that comes with additional funding? Let's all get working on the deficit shall we? Most schools would not consider me, if I did not mention I came with additional funding. If you read the post carefully, I stated, I did not want to state I came with additional funding and after that funding ceased, what next? I want long term sustainable income. I don't think I will last until 67 or 68 in a school when I am due to retire as a teacher. In fact I don't think most teachers will.
     
  7. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    BG I'm looking at self employment options. Attempting to find a teaching post in this dire job market with 50,000 teachers unemployed, a fifth of teachers not in permanent contracts, 10,000 decrease in teachers last year in schools and 5,000 TAs and 5,000 CSs increase in schools last year, with unqualified teachers being able to apply for qualified teachers post AND a 20% cut in the schools SEN budgets, I stand very little chance. Every teacher is going to be affected by the changes and some more directly than others. Luck plays a part in being a in permanent teaching contract these days.
     
  8. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    Best get off to bed too. I have to visit a couple of prospective clients tomorrow at 10.00am so I better get some beauty sleep and impress them with what I have to offer. I am doing well self employed and am making inroads already. I really wish I continued on this path years ago by investing further in it and did not waste my own and taxpayers money training to teach. I thought teaching would be a great option for security, but I have been proved wrong. I will still apply for teaching posts but really am getting my heart and soul into employing myself. I feel empowered for the first time in many years.

    Perhaps if I am really really sucessful I will be able to take on people with disabilties and pay for all their special needs because the money I would be spending would be money that would be going into taxes. But right now, I am too poor to take risks and all my financial planning and decisions are based on costs. When you have a very tight budget, you have to make very tough decisions.

    Good luck Lespaul, show them what you are worth. They will be barmy not to take you.
     
  9. As a gay teacher I think the word homosexual is a bit old fashioned, perhaps offensive. In my experience it has been difficult being open about my sexuality. Just wondering if there is a need for a LGBT forum, on TES.
     
  10. Anyone with a social sciences degree will be able to tell you very clearly that statistically there is a huge amount of discrimination against all sorts of minorities in the workplace. Schools are no different, although it is clear some fields are worse than others, and that schools, perhaps, suffer somewhat less than others.
    Nevertheless, it remains a statistical fact that ethinic minorities, women (especially those of child-bearing age), openly gay people, transgendered people, those nearing retirement age and those with an obvious disability find it harder to get jobs across many fields of employment, and struggle more to 'climb the ladder' once they do so.
    There are many Heads who would be horrified at the idea of not employing somebody simply because of a disability...but probably still quite a few who (for example) might baulk at employing an openly transgendered teacher, or one in a wheelchair.
    I have incidentally been asked whether I have children and what I intend to do about childcare by a prospective employer, although not for a teaching role - it happens with more frequency than you might imagine.
     
  11. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    I've heard of and experienced loads of harrassment of gay teachers and I try to keep up to date with LGBT issues. The harrassment can take the form of students bullying teachers, staff etc and the gay teacher not being given the support they need. Even the union reps can have their issues too!

    I really believe we should have a disability forum, older teachers forum and a LGBT forum. It's sad that people in this day and age are refusing to accept that disadvantage i.e. being LGBT, disabled, BME, a parent, over 40 creates more obstacles to employment and having more than one disadvantage creates even more. I attended a gender in education conference and this transgendered teacher spoke of her harassment at coming out. Can you imagine how difficult it is to live as a woman for a year in order to qualify for the surgery etc. as a teacher? Can you imagine many schools being supportive? There is little understanding. I have a transgendered (TG) friend and she says that in her son's school three boys have now realised they are transgendered due to seeing and speaking to her. Cynics will think she is 'influencing' them. She too for many years believed she was a gay man as the emotional issues she had and her limited knowlege of TG issues lead her to believe that is what she is. Amongst many over 30s I believe there are many TGs living in turmoil who may not realise they are TGs but as more understanding of the issues become apparent, it will even out.

    The transgendered teachers I met at the conference were all unemployed. I said to them the reasoning was that if Sir became a Miss it would confuse children. They argued that it was more confusing to children not to understand why Sir became or wanted to become a Miss. And recently a TG girl was openly discriminated in her examinations by being ordered to go home and change into her 'proper' boy's uniform. She refused. This is still going on in this day and age. The mother had to threaten with legal action. Can you imagine the emotional impact that had on her learning? I hope the family sues the school.

    Can you imagine a HT in 2012 not knowing it was illegal to behave in this way? Can you imagine that HT employing a teacher that was LGBT? Best wishes York
     
  12. catbefriender

    catbefriender Lead commenter

    Millebear1, thanks for adding more credence to my argument and as you know being asked about whether you have children or childcare arrangements is illegal/unlawful BUT there is no way you can prove that you were asked is there? The advice I have been given is to say, 'My mother/sister etc. (in law) lives down the road and s/he will be available 24/7 and is totally reliable,' (even if it is not true) and then work out the childcare provisions after the offer of a job. The 'I'll look into it once I get a post,' apparently isn't as impressive.
     
  13. What about the individuals who claim they are treated unfairly in employment/do not get jobs etc that are not part of a minority? It would be interesting to compare figures of work related issues/claims made by minority groups with those not from minority groups. Would you have any idea what the ratio would be in relation to the population? All of the studies/reports I have looked at are very difficult to decipher, purely because of mixed information and cross overs of 'minorities'.

    I'm not trying to claim that the world is a wonderful place and that discrimination doesn't exist. What I am simply trying to argue is that it is certainly not as rife as is being made out.
     
  14. I think that there is room for a lot of improvement and education with regard to gender identity and I would not be surprised to hear of discriminatory behaviour towards people in that position. Unfortunately, I think it is something people are still very ignorant about. I would imagine a transgender teacher would be subject to a poor working experience from the attitude of students in particular, who can be very cruel with anyone that has what they consider to be a bullyable physical trait, e.g. overweight, red hair etc, let alone with an individual who has embarked on such a difficult journey.

    Through the nature of my previous work I have a huge proportion of gay friends and colleagues. I have never once heard them complain of discrimination. I'm sure it happens in some fields but none that I have ever worked in.
     

Share This Page