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Why should I register as an Unqualified Teacher when I am qualified??

Discussion in 'Further Education' started by icarusunshine, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. Hello all,

    I completed my PGCE PCET in June just gone and, as with many I'm sure, have found myself without a position for September and registering with lots of agencies...
    What I've been discovering over the past weeks is that few agencies service the FE sector and so I have mainly been applying for secondary roles and signing up for cover work in secondary schools. One of my agencies, however, has told me that in order for them to be able to legally place me in a secondary school I would have to register with the GTC as an Instructor/Unqualified Teacher, paying £36 odd for the priviledge (this is obviously on top of the IfL membership fee...!).
    Apart from my obvious reluctance to pay out more money for membership of yet another Quango (which will cease to exist next March anyway!), I find it very uncomfortable registering myself ANYWHERE as an 'Unqualified Teacher'. I spent a heck of a lot of blood, sweat, tears and money in order to gain my DTLLS and I resent the need to jump through these hoops, especially after Michael Gove's rattification of the Wolfe reccommendation to allow QTLS teachers to teach in schools!!
    Am I just being bitter and unnecessarily difficult? Do I just need to suck it up, register and stop complaining or am I justified in being pretty peeved?

    Also can anyone clarify if it is, in fact, a LEGAL requirement that I'm GTC registered to teach in secondary schools or if it's just my agency being awkward...?

    Ta muchly :)


     
  2. I would try to avoid agencies if possible: your CV will just get mislaid amongst the hundreds of others. If you leave your fate to agencies you will be treated badly by most of them and get nowhere.
    Look on college websites as many save money by ONLY advertising on their own websites - they know that the keen and motivated jobseekers will make the effort to look at their websites regularly.
    For example:
    http://www.derby-college.ac.uk/vacancies-at-derby-college/job-vacancies
    http://www.gloscol.ac.uk/Zenntrix.aspx?a_id=6769

    You did not say what your specialist subject is - you should do so in case anyone reading knows where there is a job opportunity that you could apply for. I would recommend looking at these job websites:
    https://www.tes.co.uk/jobsHub.aspx
    http://www.fejobs.com/
    http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/
    http://www.fecareers.co.uk/

    Good luck.
     
  3. I've written about this subject a billion times in these forums now but here goes...

    I completed my PGCE PCET in June just gone and, as with many I'm
    sure, have found myself without a position for September and registering
    with lots of agencies...
    I feel your pain, especially the ones who are 'fake friendly' (hello, how are you today-P** off, thinks I! I know that you actually don't give a s****, so why are you patronising me by pretending?)
    What I've been discovering over the
    past weeks is that few agencies service the FE sector and so I have
    mainly been applying for secondary roles and signing up for cover work
    in secondary schools.
    I'm very surprised to discover this, as I'm registered with many agencies who deal with FE teachers.PM me for a list, if you're interested.
    One of my agencies, however, has told me that in
    order for them to be able to legally place me in a secondary school I
    would have to register with the GTC as an Instructor/Unqualified
    Teacher, paying £36 odd for the priviledge (this is obviously on top of
    the IfL membership fee...!).
    I totally agree! Some of the agencies I've spoken to also gave me this guff! What the agency said is true. You can do this if you want, as it 'apparently' makes things easier for the school if you decide to convert at a later date, but you don't have to because as you don't have QTS, you're not technically 'qualified' to teach (I'll get to the legal bit in a mo. I'm referring to the legal situation as they say it at this point), so you can't register.
    Apart from my obvious reluctance to
    pay out more money for membership of yet another Quango (which will
    cease to exist next March anyway!),

    Agreed. Just keep saying to people that you're a fully qualified FE teacher who has or is working towards QTLS (because of Wolf) and are willing to discuss gaining QTS if you get a perm school job IF necessary (imo, it won't be)
    I find it very uncomfortable
    registering myself ANYWHERE as an 'Unqualified Teacher'. I spent a heck
    of a lot of blood, sweat, tears and money in order to gain my DTLLS and
    I resent the need to jump through these hoops, especially after Michael
    Gove's rattification of the Wolfe reccommendation to allow QTLS
    teachers to teach in schools!!
    Am I just being bitter and
    unnecessarily difficult? Do I just need to suck it up, register and
    stop complaining or am I justified in being pretty peeved?
    No, you are justified in being peeved. So am I and a lot of other FE teachers on here as this topic has come up again and again on these forums.
    Also
    can anyone clarify if it is, in fact, a LEGAL requirement that I'm GTC
    registered to teach in secondary schools or if it's just my agency being
    awkward...?
    As I said earlier, as you don't have QTS and are registered with IfL, no because even without Wolf's recommendation being accepted, you don't need QTS to do supply work anyway because this would fall into the 'someone without QTS with specialist skills or experience can work until someone with QTS can be found' clause. As I said if you got a perm job in a school and were at the point where you were REQUIRED to get QTS via a conversion course to stay at the school, then it would be worth joining the body to replace the GTC.
    The trouble is that a lot of schools and agencies are either unaware of or confused by the practical implications of the Wolf recommendation being accepted, so when dealing with people in our situation, they're not actually sure what to say to us, so stick to the old line to 'be on the safe side'. My advice to you is to stick to the agencies who either deal with some FE posts as well, or don't give you the guff that you described in your post (as imo, these are the ones who are savvier and more likely to be helpful to you) and politely quote the info about QTLS and the Wolf reports to all future consultants who say stuff like this and firmly state that for that reason, you won't be bothering. If they object, don't sign up with them!
     
  4. Thank you both so much for your excellent advice! It's really good to get some clarity on the whole thing as well as a few more ideas for job searching!
    It's such a kick in the teeth to be in this situation having gained my qualification etc... but that's life I suppose. Ps09th - your description of agencies and your experiences with them is hilarious in its accuracy but I'm buoyed by the information you've given me - at least I know where I stand now.
    My specialist subject is Performing Arts - Drama, Music, Musical Theatre, Singing, Voice...

    Anyone out there who would like to hire a passionate young graduate, sned me a line ;)

    Thanks again folks!
     
  5. Sorry to be so blunt - but until such a time that there is a change in legislation, within 5-16 sector, DTLLS means you ARE unqualified! ENd of - there is not point moaning about it - you have three choices - abide by the rules and accept this inc GTCE membership, get QTS or stick to the area you trained in.
    As for you assuming that you are capable of teahcing wihtin the sector, I perosnally find this insulting - are you aware of even 1 nth of the requirements of the sector? I doubt it for many, but even less so a NQT! If you wished to teach in a school you should have trained in this surely?
     
  6. - but, for the last six months ago, IfL has been boasting, incessantly and everywhere, that the Wolf report means that people with QTLS can now teach in schools.
    Is this true or isn't it? If it is true, then agencies handling school placements are not entitled to treat QTLS holders as unqualified.
    If it isn't true, then IfL is sitting in the midst of a very large heap of pork pies.
    Clarification please, from anyone who knows the real situation.
     
  7. Sorry to be so blunt - but until such a time that there is a change in legislation, within 5-16 sector, DTLLS means you ARE unqualified! ENd of - there is not point moaning about it - you have three choices - abide by the rules and accept this inc GTCE membership, get QTS or stick to the area you trained in.

    Sorry to be so blunt back but there HAS been a change in the sector which both the OP and I have spoken about. If you don't believe us, look up the relevant press release on the IfL and new department of Education websites. That aside, as I explained in my previous post, we come under paragraph 8 of the relevant section of the 2003 Education act which states that people with specialist skills and experience (A-level Psychology is a post 16 specialist subject and I have a post 16 teaching qualification) CAN teach in a school even though they don't have QTS

    As for you assuming that you are capable of teahcing wihtin the sector, I perosnally find this insulting - are you aware of even 1 nth of the requirements of the sector? I doubt it for many, but even less so a NQT! If you wished to teach in a school you should have trained in this surely?

    Are you assuming that because I don't have the letters QTS after my name that I'm not qualified to teach MY specialist subject (Psychology) to MY specialist age group (16 plus) in school after 6 long bloody years of work and aggravation (including the work required to gain my PGCE)! If so, I personally find YOUR response to the OP insulting as well as ill-informed and patronising! It's not just school teachers who have to undergo a lot of training and aggravation, you know! I'm especially by insulted by the fact that many schools are more than happy to offer OUR courses e.g. A-level Psychology and ask us to come in and teach them because they can't find someone who knows the specification etc well enough do it properly but then tell us that we're not 'qualified' to stay there! In other words, we're ok to get you out of a hole when you're stuck but you don't want us to stick around because our qualifications and experience aren't good enough for you, even we've proved that we can teach our subjects well and handle our students well, despite the change of scenery!

    Fwiw, the reason why I chose to get a post 16 qualification is because I want to teach the subject that I love to an age group that I enjoy spending time with! Where I choose to do that is my business because my piece of paper (PGCE) says that I can!

    Again, I ask why we have to have this snobbery on TES about the difference between FE and secondary teaching when we don't have this snobbery about primary and secondary teachers! You also differ about which age groups you teach and how you do it but I've yet to read a thread in which Primary and Secondary teachers tell each other that they can't change age groups because they're not properly qualified because they don't work in the same building! Conversely, FE teachers don't say stuff like this to secondary teachers who want to teach in FE! On the contrary, I welcome your different experience and qualifications and would love to learn from you!

    Why can't you offer us the same courtesy and give us sensible advice about moving into a different teaching environment instead of telling us that we're not welcome to try something different if we want to?

    By the way, when I explained why i have a PGCE but not QTS, the secondary teachers that I've worked with, welcomed me with open arms (told me that as far as they are concerned I am fully qualified) and disagreed with the law which until March prevented my qualifications from being recognised.
     

  8. I think you have missed the point here.
    The Wolf report is merely advisory atm. Until this changes you ARE UNQUALIFIED!!!
    End of.
    No, Miss Pious, I think it is you who has missed the point here. The Wolf report's recommendation was immediately accepted by Michael Gove in March and as I explained, FE teachers fall into the exceptional clause of the Education 2003 act anyway which says that we CAN teach in schools for a certain period of time, so the law is grey rather than as black and white as you are painting it.
    Also, most teachers that I know have trained via the Cert
    Ed/PTTLS/CTTLS/PTTLS which is NOT anywhere's near close to what is
    covered during a PGCE/BA Ed/BEd/GTP - all with QTS I am afraid.... I can
    state this categorically having mentored students on both systems.
    I respect your opinion and experience but there are exceptions to every rule and I know of many teachers who DID successfully make the transition from FE to secondary teaching without any problems. I fully admit that pre 16 teaching is not for me which is why I went back to teaching in a college. However, my secondary colleagues (including my former school bosses who were SMT and ASTs) completely agreed that there was no question of my ability to teach A-level Psychology to sixth formers (I have consistently been graded as good and better in all environments since I was an NQT). Thereby, I stick by my conviction that there is no reason why I and other FE teachers shouldn't have the right to teach FE courses in a school with our specialist age group if we wish to, as it is perfectly possible to be employed as a
    sixth form only teacher in a school. Also, the reality is that we go where the money is. As more schools get more of the funding to offer FE courses and that's where the work is, then that's where we'll go. If you don't like this situation, that's your problem because that's how it is.
    End of!
    You may not like my opinions but everyone on TES does not have to agree with you.
    I don't expect everyone to do so and I would say the same to you. Your posts on this thread clearly show that you don't like mine as it is very different to yours!
    I don't have a problem with different opinions at all! What I have a problem with is people like yourself denigrating the experience and qualifications of FE teachers who wish to work with you on the basis of a legal technicality which has now been addressed.
    Maybe you've misunderstood my argument, I totally agree with you that if I want to work with the under 16s, I should, of course, complete the necessary retraining as a secondary school teacher because they need to be approached differently etc, as you said. However, I don't see why I should be treated as an unqualified teacher and looked down on if I am teaching my subject specialism to my specialist age group in a school (the only thing that has changed is the building). As for covering other year groups, schools have cover supervisors, many of whom don't have any teaching experience or qualifications at all and yet it's ok for them to teach other year groups. Why should FE teachers be any different? We may not be qualifed to teach the age groups that we're exposed to BUT we ARE qualified teachers because we have a PGCE and in many cases experience of teaching vocational courses to the under 16s who are disaffected and have come to us because they won't work anywhere else. As one of my school heads observed, 'you are qualified to cover the lower year groups in the sense that you are a responsible adult'.
    I stick by what I say and will continue to say it as long as people ask me for advice. You can of course continue to advise differently and continue to disagree with FE teachers teaching in schools, that is your choice. Just it is my choice to continue to arguing that my qualifications should be recognised and applying to teach Psychology to sixth form students in a school if that's where the work is.


     
  9. Hi,
    As someone in a similar position- confused about the whole eligibility/schools parity issue, I too thought that when the Government accepted the recommendations with 'immediate effect' the whole issue had been resolved.
    I emailed the IfL recently and obtained a document which clarifies the whole sorry mess and outlines the guidance that is being issued to schools. The document outlines that legislation to allow FE qualified teachers with QTLS will come into affect by April 2012. At this point I presume QTS and QTLS will have parity or will at least be recognised in schools.
    If you email the IfL and ask for 'ASCL QTS and QTLS Guidance' they will send you a copy by email.
    Hope this helps! (Fingers crossed it's not just a pipe dream!) [​IMG]

     
  10. Is there any chance you can forwarded this document onto myself or advise me who to contact on the IFL


    Teresa
     
  11. I hold both QTLS and QTS and I am registered with both the IFL and GTCE.
    Having taught in a Mainstream School and most recently in the Further Education Sector, you just simply cannot compare QTLS with QTS!
    Any buffoon can enrol onto a PTLLS - CTLLS - DTLLS programme (point in case, an semi-literate Satellite Dish installer who thought he could become an FE Lecturer). You don't have to be a graduate and can trade in on vocational qualifications at Level 3.
    Having taught on the DTLLS programme it's not worth the paper it's printed on! You simply cannot compare at DTLLS qualification with a BEd/PGCE/GTP. The latter has immense depth and breadth and besides, DTLLS is only at Level 5 on the qualifcation framework.
    I really resent these 'Plastic Teachers" even being considered for a Qualified Teacher Status role. It's more of a potential nightmare than a pipe dream!


     
  12. Sadly I agree.
    Though many on here will not..
     
  13. Without knowing the first thing about me or my prior experience and qualifications I find your SWEEPING GENERALISATION insulting and only indicates your own bitter narrow-mindedness. I am not a 'Plastic Teacher' and to define me as such based on the fact that my qualification is DTLLS is ridiculously ignorant and frankly pathetic.
    As a Newly Qualified TEACHER(!) I'm shocked and abhorred by the disgusting way some (not all, thankfully!) of the more experienced members and contributors respond to and about those of us just starting out. We are here seeking advice from people who are supposedly wiser - if all you have to give is prejudice, insult and psychic vampirism then I think the majority of us would rather you didn't bother.
    Note that whilst I could highlight some of the epic and sometimes staggering incompetencies of certain QTS holders I'm aquainted with and have worked with I refrain, given that I have respect for all of my colleagues working within education and wouldn't be small minded enough to attack all holders of QTS for the failings of a few.

     
  14. Sure proof that you can be well qualified yet ignorant and unwise!
     
  15. ditto
    I have made this point many times before.
    Arguably all students are 'buffoons' - but this is hardly a crime. We are in the business of developing 'buffoons' into higher functioning apes.
    And there is an extremely good reason for this. Without this possibility much of vocational FE teaching would be impossible. Who do you think will teach your sat dish installer?
    Having mentored several colleagues through DTLLS I'm not sure I'd agree.
    You can't, and you shouldn't, as they are explicitly at different levels. I don't know who does make this comparison.
    They perhaps have more depth, but I'm reasonably impressed with the pedagogical understanding of my DTLLS colleagues.
    I wouldn't describe my DTLLS qualified colleagues as 'Plastic Teachers'. This is so far from reality, particularly in vocational teaching, where many school teacher would not last the day.
    But if you are saying that the idea that QTLS=QTS is false, then I couldn't agree more.

     

  16. Hi,

    I just emailed the IFL enquiry dept. (enquiries@ifl.ac.uk I think that's right- check IFL website just in case) and quoted the name of the document and they emailed it back to me as a PDF file.


     
  17. Sorry is this a reply in regard to the original poster's query...? If you wish to slate QTLS holders perhaps you should open a new thread to discuss it, rather than offending people who simply wanted an answer in regard to an information query.
    As someone who did both routes- my experience was that the FE route was far more informative and useful in terms of preparation for teaching than the QTS route. I can only say that I obviously received better quality teaching than you yourself provided to your students on the DTLLS.
    As someone who investigated whether QTS was 'fit for purpose' in light of the inclusion agenda as part of my MEd- I can tell you my invesigation was not favourable, the conclusion being NO teacher training is by any means 'the gold standard' or indeed an adequate basis to become a quality teacher. Quality tends to come with learning from a positive experience, and believe it or not a positive attitude towards teaching (the desire to learn and develop as an individual, and faith that all students can learn).
    As for it being a course for the semi-literate there are in fact two routes- one for graduates.
    Thankfully the Government has seen fit to put an end to this educational snobbery. There is no significant difference between QTS and QTLS that would prevent anyone from being able to do the job just as well if not better. Get used to the idea- as it is happening like it or not- as of April next year legislation will be in place to make it official.
     
  18. If anyone hears of a QTLS-only qualified lecturer getting a job in a secondary school, let us know.
     
  19. This might happen sooner than you think!
    Perhaps you would like to read this article titled "Free school staff need no qualifications" which appeared on the FT website.
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1877b892-dfa0-11df-bed9-00144feabdc0.html
    24 free schools are opening this month; they are listed here.
    http://www.education.gov.uk/a00197807/24-free-schools-to-open-across-england-this-month
    More will follow in 2012 and FE teachers with a degree (or degrees), a PGCE and industry/business/ management experience could make good employees of these free schools.

     
  20. mandala1

    mandala1 Occasional commenter

    Free schools and academies don't have to abide by nationally agreed pay scales though.
     

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