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why haven't dads got better PR?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by amberwaves, Mar 27, 2012.

  1. this question is the product of several pints of bitter, but why? Why are dads so dispensable? Teacher women can do without them financially - a single-mum TA in our school has just found out she's only £20 a week worse off without a job than with one, so god knows where that leaves the dad in the "necessary-human" stakes .So is the only thing a dad has to offer some money?
    Why are dads considered such s*** (I now know the swaer thing!) Why do women feel so determined to do without one just cos they can? Isthe role of husband(substitute) now so far beyond a man's capability that we'd just as soon not bother? What effect can this have on the next lot of kids?
     
  2. I would not say my Dad is dispensable. He has been a t**t at times in the past but is good to me and I guess that is all that matters. I have been lucky though, I realise.
     
  3. My soon to be Ex has exactly the same PR as me ....... But he chose to *** off and not be a Dad to my boys ! There's nothing he did that I don't or can't do so dispensible ....... Yes !
     
  4. Dunno. Maybe because no one's dad could be as awesome as mine? He's funding me through my PGCE, supporting me AND my mum as she goes through a rocky divorce (not him- they've been split ages) and spends most evenings at the moment helping me through a tricky placement.

    We didn't get on great when I was a teenager- we're FAR too alike- but in recent years, we've grown really close.
    Dads are great. Mind you, good parents are great- regardless of gender.
     
  5. dumpty

    dumpty Lead commenter

    Sorry to hear you and your friends have had bad relationships, but as always with forums, you are not going to get threads on here written by women (or men) saying how lovely their relationships are. As others have said, not everyone has the same view or experience as you when it comes to dads/men/fathers.
     
  6. hazeymazey

    hazeymazey New commenter

    Maybe people get bad PR rather than dads! It's a question of contribution rather than sex isn't it? I know some rotten mothers and some rotten fathers. My own dad is wonderful and my o/h could not be a better father to our children so both of them get good pr from me for a start.
     
  7. I'm a dad to my two stepsons and my daughter,
    My wonderful partner is the "bread winner" in our house hold and in terms of money i contribute it's, erm...£0. This is mainly due to I'm at college doing an Access diploma and she wants me to continue to get top, which may be compromised by having a job.
    This means that I offer my children, and partner, something other than money. i'm the envy of all my friends that are dads because i'm able to spend that time with my children. tyhey are also envious because im a kept man LMAO (untill I qualify.)
    Coming back round to your original comment, I think everybody is "dispensable" in a finanical sense. If I was a single father then I might be £20 a week off worse.
    I am a firmly believe that a single-mum, and I know some fantastic ones, regardless of money, are unable to provide a balanced lifestyle where the veiws of two opposites sexes compliment each other. this statment is also true of single-dads.
    As for the effect it may have on the next gen of children that become adults, its hard to say. our social learning of the opposites gender is, I think, greatly influenced by our parents/guardians/care givers and how they treated each other. If children are bought up in a single parent family unit then social interaction between women and men might be even more strained.
    I think men need to move away from this feel obligation of finacial duty and this feeling of women have absolute power regarding the children. We can give something that money cant buy, love, fun and commitment
    sorry my post is unstructured, ive rushed it as I have 20mins to b4 class starts!!! [​IMG]
     
  8. My Dad died when I was 5. He was 36. That was 50 years ago next September. I still miss him and the role/relationship we could have had. Fathers are essential.
     
  9. henriette

    henriette New commenter

    My children's "Dad" (my husband) is an integral part of their/our life. We would not be without him for a million years, despite the fact that he has not worked sinc elast May and adds nothing financial to the mix. He is worth so much more than moeny.
     
  10. I was carrying on a discussion we were having at the pub! When I get home I am still thinking about it but have no-one to talk to! The area my school's in is "insalubrious". I'm really delighted that you're pleased with your own Dads and the ones who father your children but it's far from the case here. The vast majority of our kids have had no meaningful paternal relationship and it's down to the men themselves being more trouble than they're worth or just clearing off as soon as the going gets tough. There's a whole generation of girls here who have grown up with no idea of a live-in supportive, contributing male who goes by the name of father. I don't know what they're going to make their own choices on the basis of, or what they think the social role of an adult male actually is, any more than their mothers seem to have.
     
  11. dumpty

    dumpty Lead commenter

    That simply cannot be true. All the women at your school are sweet little girls, horribly abused by the big, bad man? ??Nonsense. Of course this does happen and yes,. to sweet, undeserving women......but boy, let's not pretend there are not obnoxious single parent mothers out there, too! Many cases in Hackney where I worked of women getting pregnant in a pub car park so they could demand (and get) a bigger house for free. The truth is there are sad men AND women out there, and more often than not they find each other and start disastrous relationships with the children being the true losers.
     
  12. moonpenny

    moonpenny Occasional commenter





    It is actually a fallacy that having another child automatically entitles you to a bigger house,especially in the London area where the social housing lists have people on them who first registered in the 1990s.
    Being overcrowded only actually puts you in band C which means that you will wait many years for accommodation which is big enough.
    And at the moment,there is a huge demand for private rented housing in the London area and mostly you need to be very well off, with a good credit rating and access to a huge bond to be able to compete with other people who are also desperate for a roof over their heads.
    And to the OP, I think it is possible to dissect any relationship and focus on the negatives. I loved my dad lots and he wasn't perfect but then neither am I.
     

  13. I can't see where amber suggested the single mothers were faultless. All she said was that they were...single, and the main carers.
    I too have worked at a school (a small one) where male parents were notable by their absence. In fact, I think I saw one dad in the two years I was there. And no, the mothers weren't (to quote you) 'sweet little abused girls' - a lot of them were ghastly. They were still on their own though, bringing their kids up alone (with varying degrees of success)
     
  14. But you have quoted where she does say this and in the OP it is very anti-male. I also think it is important to have balance in these debates. However, you are afterwards quite right and it is extremely problematic that so many children are being brought up in single parent families - but have you ever tried to have a reasonable debate with single parents about that? They go into immediate denial and play the 'discrimination' card. Dumpty is 100% correct in that it is the poor children who suffer most, but again, we must not talk about that, we must pretend just being brought up by one parent (and yes, most often the mother) is all fine and problem free, without any issues for the children at all.
     
  15. moonpenny

    moonpenny Occasional commenter

    We shouldn't forget fathers for justice either.All the dads who want to stay in contact with their kids but for who it is made very difficult by their ex partners.
    The law in this country often makes it easier for women than men when they is a relationship break up but there are kids involved.
     
  16. The generally get custody, financial support and have the nerve to use the phrase "my children" rather than "our children" when speaking, as in post 3.
     
  17. PlymouthMaid

    PlymouthMaid Occasional commenter

    Surely we are all dispensible but in terms of parenting the ideal is to have both a father and a mother. This is only an ideal if they are well functioning adults who care about the child and obviosly there are shades of everything in between inclusing two mums, two dads and single parents of both genders. Having one parent missing from your life for whatever reason can casue a ton of issues in adult life. Dunno what I am rambling about really but bad dads (or mums) are probably better dispensed with as early in the child's life as possible to limit the damage. Good ones should be involved all through their lives whether living with other parent or not.
     
  18. Exactly. My Dad was never around but I was brought up by my mother and my step-dad. My step-dad is the person I consider to be my father and we are still close today even though Mum is sadly no longer around.
    I am divorced with two children - they have both their mother and father still equally in their lives. It means they have two homes and they are happy with this.
    Being separated parents does not automatically mean that the children have to suffer, but it does mean that both parents have to take the upbringing of the children just as 100% seriously as if they were still together.
    I read the original post as being anti-female, subsequent posts seemed to be more anti-male.
    I think it is unwise to generalise. I do not know anyone divorced with children in Germany, where both parents are still not involved in the upbringing (as opposed to being paying absentees). However, we do have automatic joint custody of children here, which I think makes it on the one hand easier to deal with any issues, on the other hand does require that you act responsibly and keep your adult gripes about the ex-partner out of the lives of your children. It is not a foolproof system, of course - just because in my own group of friends and colleagues all is "rosy" does not mean that many children do not suffer from the absence of one of the parents.
    However, I think that the fault lies on both sides. Some single mothers may, rightly or wrongly, do all they can to ensure that the father plays no further role. Some fathers will be quick to deny any responsibility in child-rearing.
    That has all come out as more of a ramble than I intended - I hope it is in some way coherent.
     
  19. It's not anti-anyone in particular! I don't know why anyone would question if i'm telling the truth when i say "the vast majority" of kids in my schools have a very limited concept of "father". The only school its not strictly true for is the one with a larger Muslim population. I'm not having a pop at single mums, I'm wondering how a live-in, contributing (and I don't mean just money) male partner became an item you can so easily do without and would choose to do without. When I've got into conversation with some of our parents, the common thread seems to be that either the father took off sometimes even before the kid was born or soon after, and the successive boyfriends have not been up to the job (even tho some of them provided another child along the way!). I don't think it gives the next generation a view of men that they are valuable or respectable.
     
  20. You could equally ask what view it is giving the next generation about women, could you not?

     

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