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Why do Primary get paid the same as Secondary?

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by Freddie92, Dec 5, 2007.

  1. Freddie92

    Freddie92 New commenter

    I have nothing against Primary staff. I am sure most of them do a good job, but I really am thinking of joining the SSTA and pushing for extra pay for all the extra **** we have to do and put up with being secondary staff.

    We have more parents evenings and a heavier workload. Plus we have so many after school events, meetings, clubs etc...

    And then there is the issue of marking.

    I am not trying to create a divide, but rather a serious discussion as to why we get the same dough as primary people.
     
  2. Freddie92

    Freddie92 New commenter

    I have nothing against Primary staff. I am sure most of them do a good job, but I really am thinking of joining the SSTA and pushing for extra pay for all the extra **** we have to do and put up with being secondary staff.

    We have more parents evenings and a heavier workload. Plus we have so many after school events, meetings, clubs etc...

    And then there is the issue of marking.

    I am not trying to create a divide, but rather a serious discussion as to why we get the same dough as primary people.
     
  3. 33 kids...14 subjects (possibly more), equal parental pressure, **** liason with a secondary with staff who ask for 'valuable transition info' then sit on it for months, kids who have no interest in certain subjects (unlike S3 onwards who at least might have some choice in what they do), a much wider curriculum where we have to devise lessons and resources for a multitude of areas, reading groups to hear in the middle of the day (I hear groups 8x a week which I have to find the time for while the kids finish other activities), being looked down on by some secondary staff who know their subject inside out but would struggle to teach anything other than a 16 yr old with huge interest levels in their subject (not for one second saying that this is anywhere near the majority of staff but I have experienced it), possibly more pastoral care (not sure but we don't have guidance) which includes disclosures etc

    I could go on! I did swither over answering this as I don't think any good will come of it but hey I've got a migraine and its 2am so theres diddly squat else happening!

    Not saying my job is harder but if I thought for one moment secondary staff thought they should be getting extra pay...

    Can I throw into the ring practical subjects in secondary which have class sizes of 20...hmmm
     
  4. misterroy

    misterroy New commenter

    Dont you have any friends who are primary teachers Freddie? We've got it easy, keep quiet or we'll get rumbled.
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    You're asking again?


    Have you taught in primary?


    I've taught in special (sebd: primarily primary but over a year in the secondary class too), primary and secondary. None is easier than the others despite the rather misguided and none too bright opinions of those who think otherwise.
     
  6. These pissing matches about who has the hardest job/ teaches the most worthwhile/difficult subject serve no purpose other than to antagonise other people.

    Really, why Freddie92?
     
  7. Ok, if I wanted to put the fuel on the fire, Id say this

    Computing Teachers should be paid more than others!

    Why
    1. Sacrifice, Using our skills in industry is more lucrative, but we do it because we care!

    2. Specialist knowledge. Systems, programming etc subjects that the Head of Microsoft UK say "are only teachable naturally to 5% of the population".

    3. Network Management as well as teaching (I know I have to do it)= yet more specialist skills.

    4. As I am one, Id get paid more!
     
  8. You could also throw into the equation that we have longer working hours
    9 - 3.30 over a year adds up.
    33 kids total, I ecplise that before the start of second period.
    Registration - 30
    Class 1 - 20 pupils, thats 50 before I've even started marking 40 higher courseworks which span multiple periods

    Primary - teach the kids to read and make our job up here in the big leagues easier ... until then, we should get extra pay.
     
  9. 9-3.30 longer working hours?
    UM
    HUH???

    8.50 - 3.25 in my primary school (class contact)
     
  10. This looks like a kind of pointless thread, but I'll join in for a laugh.

    I'm secondary maths and find it's very often primary teacher and secondary teachers of English who look down on us. My own mother is a primary teacher and I know how hard she works, but I don't think it's any harder than I do. Ok, it's only one subject I have to teach, but at Levels E,F, Int 1 and 2, Credit, Foundation, Access 3 and Higher. That's this years load alone. Each of these courses needs individual resources and each class needs a different approach of teaching. Even if the content is the same, seldom can it be taught in the same way to say a less able S5 set comapred to the way I'd teach a good S4 set, for example.

    I think everyone works hard. My big bugbear is people saying marking maths is easy cos it's tick cross. Anyone who's ever done it will know it most definately not. Imagine a 5 marker in 3rd year credit, they get the first bit wrong, so you need to do it all yourself using their wrong answer to see if there other marks can be allocated. At SG and above it can be very time consuming (especially if like me, you give your 4 certificate classes an ink ex every week, which is 4 marking sessions of anything from 2-5 hours depending), plus a couple of easier tick/cross sessions for S1/2.

    I admire primary teachers and what they do. I could never do their job. For a start all the multi-level similtaneous teaching would drive me nuts. I've not got a strength for being that organised. I think the conditions they have to face are very difficult too, and I don't think the support networks in place for primary teachers are a patch on secondary. But we are just as proffesional in the secondary school, and I have the privelige of working with some of the very best teachers I've ever met and I know some people who are absoloute workhorses.

    As for hours we have a 8:40 to 3:45 school day Mon to Thurs. And on Fri it's 8:40 to 12:30. In my dept most folk are generally in for 8:10/15 and leave between 4 and 5. On Friday's (unless just before the hols), you'll see the majority of us in there til close on four o'clock. We also have supported study on regularly, more parents nights, lots of extra curricular stuff, after school DM's, various working groups etc etc. And don't mention lunchtime or interval when you've got kids wanting help with homework or to resit a NAB or whatever.

    At the end of the day anyone who goes into either primary or secondary or maths or english or whatever knows what's in store. Nobody is making any of us hang around. We all have difficult jobs in this itme of change, but suggesting one or the other desrves more money is rediculous. I say bump us all up another 5k and you are getting warm!

     
  11. Honestly Freddie, why do you enjoy winding so many people up? You clearly get paid too much in my opinion, cos the amount of threads you post on here, you won't have any time left to teach!!
     
  12. Freddie92

    Freddie92 New commenter

    There is no way that the jobs are exactly the same so therefore there should be different salaries.

    I have mates who are primary and I reckon they think they are worth their dough. Fair play.

    I just think my job is more demanding with more responsibility so that normally equates into more cash.

    Primary doesn't have hormones to deal with.

    As for teaching Primary I actually have taught to P6 and P7 classes and it was a doddle. Honest.

     
  13. Sorry Freddie but on this one I'm gonna give up. I don't think that theres going to be a positive outcome on it!
    Hey ho back to marking (hehe)
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous New commenter

    Has anybody suggested that the jobs are the same?

    Of course they're not the same but that doesn't mean that one is easier than the other. They are just as difficult as each other and all teachers should continue to be paid the same.

    Fortunately that's unlikely to change.

    As someone who has taught in all three sectors, at least I've got experience on which to base my opinion.

     
  15. No point dishing out the 'hormones' card Freddie, cos primary teachers have the whole range of emotions to deal with on a daily basis. The jobs aren't the same by any means, but a teacher is a teacher regardless of the agegroup, and they each have their place in a child's life, equally as important as each other.
     
  16. Freddie92

    Freddie92 New commenter

    That is just such a cop out answer.

    A teacher is a teacher.

    Well then why does my PT get more than me?

    Why do DHTs and the HT get more if they are just teachers?

    Please explain to us non-SUS people.
     
  17. Ha ha ha, oh dear Freddie. A teacher is a teacher. A PRINCIPAL teacher is not a teacher, hence the extra word there. Jeezo pal, I thought that one was fairly obvious! The extra words in front mean extra money, deal with it ;o)
     
  18. As a secondary science teacher, I'm fed up with getting kids in S1 who cannot read, write, structure sentences etc etc. Until the primary mob (and particularly the touchy feely serve you a muffin type SUS brigade) realise that their job is to drill these skills into these kids then they should not earn as much as secondary teachers. All this drama, pseudo-science, french rubbish needs to stop until the kids are able to function in their own language.

    ...and I have taught in primary. Abroad. And this lack of basic skills in primary kids would be unnaceptable there.

    So yes, more money for secondary teachers who are fed up with having to do the primary teacher's jobs as well as our own.
    And expecially more money for science and computing teachers, who at least live in the real world.
     
  19. Thanks for raising this ,Freddie. I'm a Secondary English teacher and am in the middle of marking 30 600 word essays - and that's just one class ! I've also taught in Primary and Further Education and can state with some authority that Secondary is the hardest - others on this forum have already listed many reasons.I can only add that some parents hold Secondary teachers responsible for determining their child's future - if wee Jimmy fails his Higher English it is my fault and not that of Primary staff who seem to have spent 7 years failing to teach him to read !
    Bring back the good old days when Secondary teachers were paid more - but there's no danger of that given that the EIS is domonating by wittering Primary women !
     
  20. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    I am not really going into this one; I remember I upset the papier-mâché brigade when I questioned Golden Time.

    I would say to leesey and Freddie that primary do have to deal with hormones in a big way, as the majority of teachers are just hitting puberty (what a bunch of silly little girls I had to take classes with at ITE) and at the other end the HRT mob are just red faced hot flush nut jobs.

    Have to say the nice 28-45 yr old Primary teachers do appear very nice and hard working.

    My only request would be to have a go at teaching reading, writing and maths before the kids leave primary.

    I currently have an S3 class with 3 kids at level A reading, and I am now being told that I have to get them at least a SG foundation. Honest 1 boy can not spell his own name. Just how did he get through 7 yrs in primary?
     

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