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Why do LGBT campaigners want to sexualise Primary schools?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by Vince_Ulam, Jul 3, 2018.

  1. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I respect some of Peter Tatchell's work on human rights but sex education for KS1 is too much:

    Don’t let parents opt kids out of sex education, warns leading campaigner Peter Tatchell

    'The activist told the Festival of Education that new compulsory sex and relationships education lessons, which are supposed to come in next year, must happen at least once a month and start from the first year of primary school.


    he insisted parents should not be allowed to opt out of the lessons on behalf of their children


    If the opt-out must be enforced, parents should be made to come to the school and “physically” remove their child from each lesson, he said.

    Tatchell said schools should teach pupils about all aspects of sex, including how to do it well and information on preferences and fetishes.
    Schoolsweek.co.uk, 29th June 2018.

    This is appalling advice from Peter Tatchell. Why do LGBT campaigners want to sexualise schools, both Primary & Secondary?

  2. SomethingWicked

    SomethingWicked Occasional commenter

    "Peter Tatchell" =/= "LGBT campaigners"

    It would be like me grabbing a copy of some Margaret Atwood novel and asking why all feminists think men are evil.
  3. aypi

    aypi Senior commenter

    Why should the prejudices of the parents be passed onto the children?
    Birds do it, bees do it.
    Only Brits and the ones who have been indoctrinated have a problem with it.
    Great progress has been made with equality during my lifetime, overthrowing the "morals" of various religions.
    There is still more work to be done.
  4. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Stonewall want SRE in Primary schools, too. So, LGBT campaigners.
  5. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    According to the ONS, only around 2% of the UK population identify as lesbian, gay or bisexual. Heterosexuality is the statistical norm and to assume it as the default is not indoctrination. To teach a minority tendency as though it were the statistical norm would be indoctrination.
  6. rustyfeathers

    rustyfeathers Occasional commenter

    A slight misunderstanding, I think ... yes, sex ed should be inclusive, and by trying to ignore the fact that people have sex for fun, and do more than (forgive awkward phrasing as I attempt to evade the censor bot) penetration of p in v.

    But no one is talking about teaching 5 year olds learning about sex in this way. At KS1, it'd be "different families" and what "good" touch (consenting and appropriate) is and don't force other people to hug you because their bodies are their own too, and tell a trusted adult if... etc.

    Yeha, Tatchell is... not great, though these points make sense to me (not sure, pre-caffeine kicking in time, if that's because I've done a lot of work on SRE and LGBTQIA inclusion, though). But overall... *gulps*
    Setsugetsuka and agathamorse like this.
  7. rustyfeathers

    rustyfeathers Occasional commenter

    No one is trying to indoctrinate kids into being LGBTQIA. But 2% is still a significant enough number to teach kids, essentially:
    -People are different
    -Your identity is valid and you are not alone
    -Don't be mean to others for being different.

    Also, when we're talking about sex ed (and for utter clarity, I'm talking KS4 now) ... I'm baffled as to why safe oral/anal/masturbation isn't taught to all. Often just the old "condom on a banana" lesson.It's not just LGB folk who engage in those acts.
  8. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    It is not the place of teachers to tell children what is fun sex, nor should it ever be.

    Children do not need to be taught that families can take many forms. When many on these boards were children it was unusual to find a single parent who was not bereaved, yet today no child needs to be taught that elective single parenthood can be the basis for a legitimate family. Why should things be any different for LGB parents? Why teach this to children?

    I have a problem with minority aged children being taught that '"good" touch' is 'consenting and appropriate'. Children cannot consent to the kind of touching from which we wish to protect them. They should be taught that certain kinds of touching are forbidden.
  9. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Children should be taught not to bully for any reason and that they should have self respect but to teach them to think of themselves in terms of an 'identity' at such a young age is indoctrination. These identities are inevitably adult constructions and when pressed upon children they are not permitted to grow and develop naturally.

    You think it right that government funded institutions should teach children the right and wrong way to have sex? Think twice, this could backfire. As for anal sex, it can be downright dangerous. Sex acts should not be taught in schools at any KS.
    monicabilongame likes this.
  10. rustyfeathers

    rustyfeathers Occasional commenter

    Re: fun sex.

    Sorry - to clarify: I don't think we should teach people how to have "good" sex (even if we 'should', how COULD we? It's far too subjective)... but when teaching, we need to be aware that young people will have sex because they find it fun, and not teach about it as in "this is how you make a baby". Apologies, I was unclear.

    Ah, see, they should absolutely be taught about *all kinds* of different families. An important part of growing up is learning that people are different, and that's okay. And yes, that includes single parent families and a host of others, not just same-gender parenting.

    Again, apologies for lack of clarity. I'm not talking about SEXUAL consent here, though it paves the way for it. I'm talking consent as in "if Billie doesn't want a hug, then don't hug Billie." Plus, as you mentioned, the "if anyone touches your bathing suit area [or however you define it to children] then tell a trusted adult."

    Often, LGBTQIA campaigners aren't just campaigning for LGBTQIA issues, but things that impact a much wider number of students.
  11. rustyfeathers

    rustyfeathers Occasional commenter

    Sex ed should include how to have safe sex. Teens do this stuff. Abstinence programmes, it has been shown, do not work.
  12. rustyfeathers

    rustyfeathers Occasional commenter

    Heads up that I'm now stepping away from this thread. Partly because I have other things to do, and partly because I suspect I'm unlikely to change your mind, and arguing for the sake of arguing has never appealed to me.
  13. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I appreciate your civility, @rustfeathers.

    Will they? How young are these people and why do you expect them to have sex?

    Children learn this anyway as they socialise. To teach children about particular kinds of families is to give them sanction over other kinds of families e.g. this 'inclusive' policy will not include classes about heterosexual families.

    I do not think they do, it's just a cover for their desire to perpetuate their lobby via child indoctrination. As we see with Tatchell & Stonewall the LGBT lobby demand a mile with every inch they are offered.
  14. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Wait, what happened to:
    Forget the adjectives, do you want pupils to be taught by teachers how to have sex?

    They will if their teachers teach them to do this stuff.

    It depends upon what you mean by 'not work'.
  15. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I would hope that people argue for their principles and the practice they feel is good.
  16. rustyfeathers

    rustyfeathers Occasional commenter

    Okay, final points to cover a couple of your Qs and then I'm most likely going to step away.

    Young people (again, clarity, I am talking older teens here) have sex. We know that. It's disingenuous to pretend otherwise. Most people will have sex in their lives. Safe sex is NOT instinctive, and not something that the internet is a great resource for. A lot of young people are very misinformed, and it can get them in trouble. Frankly, yes, I'd rather they be taught how to protect themselves from STIs and pregnancy and abuse than not, regardless of their sexuality and gender.

    I do argue for my principles, yes. But if I'm pretty certain that who I'm arguing with isn't going to agree with my points because of their own beliefs, I'll put my energies elsewhere. You and I are unlikely to change each other's minds, so a continuation is liable to frustrate but not actually do anything productive. Also, as someone who is queer, your arguments have potential to upset me, and again, without the likelihood of my being able to change your mind, that's pointless to me. Hence stepping out now.
  17. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    The question remains, how young are these young people who some teachers feel should be taught sex acts? At some point the sex education you envisage becomes for children the imposition of expectation. Teach pupils that sex is normal at their age and they will have sex at that age. This is not a good outcome of sex education.

    Good, and I again thank you for your civility. My curiosity is to why advocates of the sex education Tatchell & Stonewall demand feel it is legitimate that their principles, held by a tiny minority of the population, should be imposed upon the children of the overwhelming majority. I suspect it is to perpetuate & extend their political power by engineering the next generation of lobbyists. At best.
  18. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    Teachers don't tell them to 'do this stuff' - teachers tell them how to ensure that if they're going to do it, they do it safely and only ever with consent.

    We can't prevent them doing it by not talking about it. We MUST talk about it with them so that they know that they can talk to us about situations they don't feel comfortable with. Promoting trust and dialogue goes a long way to helping prevent children from becoming victims of abuse or being coerced into doing what they don't want to do.
  19. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Everyone knows that with a significant proportion of children that if you tell them how something is done then they will go out and do it.

    We do not want them not to grow up to become adults and have fulfilling sex lives within appropriate contexts. We do not want children to have sex at an inappropriate & illegal age and to suggest that teachers should be giving lessons on sex acts if frankly appalling. Is this how degraded our society has become? Introducing children to sex is known by another name in courtrooms.

    Yes, teach pupils to run a mile from & report anyone who touches them sexually, but do not teach them sexual acts.
  20. sparkleghirl

    sparkleghirl Star commenter

    Sexual abuse of children has always happened, often within the family. Before our society became so 'degraded' as you put it, the stigma attached to this and the abolute taboo nature of talking about sex meant that if was easier to scare children into not reporting and easier for the complacent rather-not-think-about-that-thank-you sectors of society to pretend it wasn't happening.

    That's the kind of society you are advocating. As long as it doesn't affect you and you can pretend it doesn't happen.

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