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Why are guidance classed as management?

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by dragon5, Jun 10, 2011.

  1. PTs and Guidance are middle management. :) I also agree that Guidance is a soft route to senior management.
     
  2. xmal

    xmal Occasional commenter

    I meant "route"...
     
  3. jonowen

    jonowen Occasional commenter

    Yes and those delivering the "course" all wear badges saying PT
    yes please....... [​IMG]
     
  4. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    could it be anything to do with the fact that they are all now Support and have been for sometime. Do you know how do deal with parents and all the other agencies that "support" have to deal with...no I did not think so. Dont get me wrong there are still hundreds of the old Guidance teachers out there, taking the money and thinking that there are no issues in there school but a modern Pastoral Support teacher will do a lot.
    They should also be managing a team of tutor/reg teachers and PSE teachers as PSE is not just the job of the "guiddy".
    There is a lot to be said for a DHT that have done their time in Support that is why I would not let anyone be a DHT if they had not dealt with pupil issues as well as curriculum planning.
    I just could not be bothered with all the nose wipping that goes on .....with the teachers( do you really need to moan at the guiddy all the time about Jimmy/Jeanny)
     
  5. Well! you certainly would not dream of asking for a "cuddle" never mind get one from our "Pastoral Care" PTs. (both PE teachers) They virtually run our school at the moment. I do not understand why our HT allowed them so much power.
     
  6. They seem to get paid a lot considering all the free time that they get. It isnt all cuddles and behaviour sheets though. A lot of it can be traumatic like mums off her head on drugs and my step dad is trying to do things to me. How do you deal with that? Fair play to anyone who signs upto a job that deals with that everyday.
     
  7. jonowen

    jonowen Occasional commenter


    sorry, but I thought being a teacher signs you up for caring about young people and if that means:
    we can't turn a blind eye.
    The Guidance teachers I know are on a 50% teaching timetable and to me that is a cushy number AND they are classed as PTs with the enhanced salary......
     
  8. TheBigA

    TheBigA New commenter

    They are called pupil care and support teachers in our school. Why the hell they all have to be PT's I'll never understand. If anything, PCS should be a department, with a single PT and "normal" teachers. Even then, I'd be unhappy with PCS being a promoted position in any way.
    PCS staff don't manage me as a form tutor by the way! They don't manage anyone, except themselves!
     
  9. xmal

    xmal Occasional commenter

    A lot of it? Anyhow, we can all hear that.
     
  10. sicilypat

    sicilypat New commenter

    As a Maths teacher I have been irked for many years about the inbalance in timetables that allows teachers with more non contact time to begin career building activities. How many schools now have a glut of teachers with lesser workloads heading towards management positions and making a complete mess of it? It does not surprise me that you have found your school in this situation.

     
  11. I never ssaid that I don't care about kids or that I turn a blind eye. I'm just not in a position where I am counselling pupils who have been attacked by thier parents at the weekend, or have been taken inot care for horrific reasons. This is a skilled and time intensive job (although some guidance teachers are pathetic) that deals with some tragic and intense incidents. And they should get paid more to do it, maybe not as much as some of them do.
    If you think it is a cushy job with 50% teaching I strongly advise you to go for a guidance post rather than misinterpreting other pepoles comments
     
  12. jonowen

    jonowen Occasional commenter

    Apologies for misinterpretation omg, having re-read your posts I understand what you're saying. However, I stand by my opinion of 50% teaching time not being as difficult as 100%, maybe cushy was the wrong adjective.
    this is my point and from personal experience (as a parent and teacher), I know how much skill is required to be a good Guidance teacher (we agree on that at least!)
    I would love to be a guidance teacher (not particularly for the promotion) but I've never been in the right place at the right time and the guidance teachers I have come across, guard their posts vehemently.
     
  13. Freddie92

    Freddie92 New commenter

    There has never really been a valid reason for Guidance Teachers to have a higher salary than classroom teachers. Yes give them more non-contacts, of course. But why is it management? They are a cross between HR and Administration really. Liaising with pupils and parents. Also if there was no money involved then the right type of Pastoral Care teacher would go for it rather than the career opportunists who jump down the guidance route then 2 minutes later apply with no sense of shame for Faculty jobs.
     
  14. xmal

    xmal Occasional commenter

    The thing that really p's me off about guidance is that they know hee-haw about my department but are tasked with advising pupils about career choices. I teach technical subjects (plural!) but techie as a department is (this is a direct quote) a good choice for "non-academic" pupils.
     
  15. xmal

    xmal Occasional commenter

    We are seen by guidance as a "sink" department along with Music and HE; a place where pupils end up of "Modern Languages isn't working out for Connor", but never the other way about; a place where pupils are told they can't attend because they are too bright. I had a conversation with a guidance teacher who said that the school should be teaching more vocational subjects.
    Like what?
    Bricklaying, plumbing...
    Who's going to teach that?
    Er, you guys, technical.
    I already teach four certificate subjects, each one has a direct vocational application and that is not enough for you! Rather, why doesn't your department (PE) make its teaching more vocational?
    (No answer)
    I'm not a plumber so when am I going to be retrained?
    Don't you know that stuff?
    No. Where are we going to teach it. Our workshops aren't suitable.
    Well, I'm sure...
    Why don't PE give up one of your gyms?

    At this point she gets up and wanders off.
     
  16. xmal

    xmal Occasional commenter

    Sorry. That last post did have paragraphs but the IE client doesn't seem to recognise them.
     
  17. TheBigA

    TheBigA New commenter

    That irks me as well xmal. Another thing that annoys me is that in our school the final say on change of level/withdrawal from a subject belongs to the guidance teacher. I don't really care whether a pupil is doing fantastically well in chemistry (or whatever) unless it has a relation to how they are performing in my subject (which it seldom does).
    Guidance teachers have an important role, no doubt about it, but they seem to be omnipotent in my school, and I don't think they're extended reach is warranted.
     
  18. jonowen

    jonowen Occasional commenter

    how very true! Career opportunists? That's a very complimentary way of putting it....
     
  19. subman68

    subman68 Occasional commenter

    How very true, and if there was no extra money we would get the HT that went for it for the right reason, then again if we did not pay teachers as much as we do then we would get people that wanted to teach for the love of it not for the wage.....Then again Freddie you could just grow up a bit and understand what the job is about.
     
  20. jonowen

    jonowen Occasional commenter

    Subman, I think Fred means the extra money for Guidance teachers could be withdrawn - the extra non-contact/time out of class teaching for doing the job should be enough. I came into teaching because I love my subject, holidays fit in with having my own kids, job security, respected profession and the money (in that order). If I was money driven I would have set up my own private tuition business and become famous with many employees. Most HTs are caring people before they become managers paid lots of money.
    Are we missing something here about Freddie's job prospects? As I see it he is voicing another moan us decent teachers have gone on about for ages - that is what the job is about.
     

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