1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

who are the parents/

Discussion in 'Primary' started by zannar, Feb 16, 2011.

  1. zannar

    zannar New commenter

    Perhaps I am tired, but why do parents expect me to initiate behaviour rewards and sanctions on their behalf? Why do they expect me to be the one to teach them how to play nicely, stop answering back, tie shoelaces, look after their own property, become organised etc, etc, etc!
    Why can't parents take some responsibility for these things?
    How can I expect the children to understand the rules and routines, which are explained to the parents again and again, when the parents don't listen to me or read letters which explain and so repeatedly ask, or moan about, everyday occurences/

    Apologies for spelling and grammar, I am too fed up to bother!

    Sorry, no reply necessary I just needed to vent.


     
  2. zannar

    zannar New commenter

    Perhaps I am tired, but why do parents expect me to initiate behaviour rewards and sanctions on their behalf? Why do they expect me to be the one to teach them how to play nicely, stop answering back, tie shoelaces, look after their own property, become organised etc, etc, etc!
    Why can't parents take some responsibility for these things?
    How can I expect the children to understand the rules and routines, which are explained to the parents again and again, when the parents don't listen to me or read letters which explain and so repeatedly ask, or moan about, everyday occurences/

    Apologies for spelling and grammar, I am too fed up to bother!

    Sorry, no reply necessary I just needed to vent.


     
  3. marlin

    marlin Star commenter Forum guide

  4. zannar

    zannar New commenter

    Thank you. [​IMG]
     
  5. As a parent (and former teacher), I would just like to point out that behaviour is determined by context. Children behave in different ways in different environments. Different teachers have different expectations of children. As a parent, I have no control, whatsoever, over what happens in school. Most of the time I do not know what happens in school. The school does not tell me, my children do not tell me, I am not encouraged to go into school during a typical day, and so it is very difficult for me to train my children in strategies that will enable them to respond appropriately to situations that arise in school. And in school they have had to cope with some situations that they would never encounter at home.
    I completely agree that some skills should be taught by parents - such as tying shoelaces if the child is wearing shoes with shoelaces, or turn-taking during games and conversations. But what do you mean by 'playing nicely', 'looking after property' or 'becoming organised'? Is it the same as what parents mean? 'Playing nicely' at home with your mum and baby brother, or at the park with a group of other pre-schoolers all under close parental supervision, isn't quite the same as 'playing nicely' with a group of energetic kids who are all bigger than you.
    When my son started school, for example, he could change his clothes efficiently. Unfortunately, changing your clothes at home is not quite the same as changing your clothes in the company of twenty other children all wearing identical outfits, and there is no way I could reasonably be expected to train him at home to cope with this situation. I can assure you that trying to second-guess from a confused, distressed five-year-old with a speech and hearing impairment what might have happened to a pair of size 10 shoes that have been exchanged for a pair of size 9s and how he might avoid such an eventuality in future, is a challenge.
    If the children are very young, it's quite possible that they don't understand what you mean if you say 'play nicely' or 'look after your property', so you'll have to spell it out, demonstrate, rehearse scenarios. If the school has specific expectations for children's behaviour, then these should be set out in writing and given to parents at least a term before the children start school. Parents and prospective students could be invited in to observe a session, with children already at school demonstrating the skills they have learned. Expectations should be clear and explicit. And since some parents are not going to bother/be able to help anyway, you will need to take responsibility for putting in place the behaviour you want in your classroom. 'This is what I mean by playing nicely. We will
    rehearse playing nicely every day until you are able to do it without
    thinking about it etc.'
    From what you've said it sounds as if you are dealing with a classic situation of unallocated responsibility - everyone thinks everyone else is taking responsibility for developing the required (and not very clearly explained) behaviour, so no-one is actually training the children to do what they are supposed to be doing.


     
  6. How very unhelpful to original OP who I think just needed to air her frustration after a tough day!
    Of course you have some control. If you've raised your child so they know what is appropriate in simple everyday situations (sharing, if someone is nasty, appropriate behaviour in classroom, polite manners etc etc etc) then you will have done your job.
    You won't always get it right (neither do we as teachers) but expectations / standards at home have a MAJOR impact on a child's ability to cope in school (and, dare I say, when they grow up and in life?)
    As a parent and current teacher, I too am tired of parents coming to me saying they have no idea why little Johnny did so and so and, by the way, could I give them some advice as to how to deal with him at home!!!
    I'm with you original OP. Hope you had a better day.
     
  7. Oh the organisation and taking responsibility thing...
    Think I've told this one before - taught a very intelligent boy who simply was just too lazy to pick up and take his own stuff with him (he'd walk off to go home leaving his clarinet on the desk, you'd remind him and be greeted with a shrug and a "mum will come back in and get it" - so I'm not being overly harsh here - he just simply couldn't be bothered). He'd got mum trained to come in and write down his spellings so he didn't have to bother taking his book out of his tray to put in his bag etc etc... mum came in to blast the school about the quantity of stuff he'd lost in school - bearing an itemised bill for the school to replace everything... funnily 99% of it was found chucked on top of the lockers where he'd left it - but of course it was the school's fault!
    As for the getting changed thing. Yep I expect kids to be able to dress/undress with a little help when it comes to fiddly buttons, tight shoe buckles, shoelaces and the like - stuff gets muddled, and we teach the aspect of it specific to the class - put your stuff together (some schools get the kids to dress their chairs to keep it contained) but the number of kids who just come up to you fully clothed and demand you get them changed is ridiculous.
    But hey ho - sometimes I wait for the point where schools will be responsible for childbirth as well as everything else that seems to be getting shunted off onto us.
     
  8. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    Just think how many parents you see, walking their children to and from school - and carrying the child's bag/clarinet/lunchbox/etc. It seems children today are incapable of carrying a bag.
    Just watch them coming into school, all of you - see how many are doing it. And then ponder the issue of children and responsibility for their stuff!
     
  9. Sorry if I came across as unhelpful/unsympathetic, but I've been at the receiving end of 'blame the parent' when teachers have not made clear what they wanted. Framing behavioural expectations in the terms that the OP did could mean different things to different people, particularly a young child. It also sounded to me as if parents and teachers had different expectations of each other. This is a recipe for disaster.
    I did not say that I have no control over the behaviour of my child. What I said was I have no control over what happens *in school*. The average classroom, believe it or not, is not a 'simple everyday situation', when compared to the average home. If, as a parent, I don't know what happens in the classroom, it's difficult for me to raise my child to behave 'appropriately'.
    At my children's last school the pupils were expected to exhibit a high degree of 'independence'. What this translated into was poor supervision at transition times during the day and a good deal of bullying and mischief taking place as a result. When parents complained, they were told that the children would never learn to be independent if they were supervised all the time. How am I supposed to train my child to deal with repeatedly being beaten up in the dinner queue if there is no one supervising the children at the time and the kicking etc is seen by staff as part of the 'rough and tumble' of school life?
    I agree. But expectations/standards at school have a MAJOR impact likewise. Behavioural spillovers happen in both directions. All I'm saying is that schools need to make their expectations clear and explicit and make it clear who is responsible for what.
    I can understand your frustration. Presumably, you were able to advise.
     
  10. mystery10

    mystery10 Occasional commenter

    I think Elsie Piddock expressed herself very clearly and logically, and as both a parent and a teacher, I consider that every sentence was well thought out, and intended to be helpful. The problem was that the opening poster was not wanting this. After presumably what has been a long half term with what she is finding a difficult group to crack she wants some sympathy, not logic!!
    So here's some sympathy. It's a very difficult job, and children can be little ******* whether they have been "brought up well" or not. You could give me a group of little angels and within ten minutes I'd have them behaving badly. Give me older children any day. By the teenage years they can't be bothered to get out of their seats and are mostly just gobby.
    I'm sure you will have some useless parents in your class, but hopefully not the majority. Maybe you tell yourself you are giving these children great experience in conflict management.
    Hope you had a better day today. But seriously, if things are going really badly all day every day, then it's back to the drawing board on something or other.
     
  11. Thank you mystery10.
    Genuine apologies to the OP for being insensitive to the tone of your post - you did make it clear you didn't want replies. [​IMG]
    It's just that I've seen so many problems arise from systems issues, rather than the behaviour of either teachers or parents, that I feel one party simply blaming the other can easily obstruct the search for the underlying cause of the problem.
     
  12. Of course the way that parents bring up their children will make a difference - but the teachers are in charge of the children during the school day. The parent cannot be responsible for behaviour on the school premises although of course the parents may not help the situation by a lax general attitude in the general upbringing.
    We need to look at the state's expectations. It is a huge task to have around 30 pupils in each class and to be expected to deliver a wide, rich curriculum, plus personalised learning, plus umpteen events, clubs and so on - and don't forget the increasing burueacracy, evidencing and constant judgement.
    No wonder teachers often reach the end of their tether by the end of a challenging day or week.
    But they are still in charge of the children during the school day - and often spend more time with the children than the parents manage themselves.
     
  13. InkyP

    InkyP Star commenter

    Putting the child's name in would help. Being told by a parent that a lost jumper is blue, aged 4-5 is no help at all.
     
  14. mystery10

    mystery10 Occasional commenter

    InkyP, you are responding as though Elsie Piddock is a ***. I don't think you have read her post properly.
     
  15. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    Are you her minder or can she not stick up for herself?

    I will say that much of elsie's post was fairly well thought out. I was shocked.
     
  16. zannar

    zannar New commenter

    Oops! I did not intend to open a can of worms, I was just tired after a frustrating day. I know I am responsible for the behaviour in my class and I do inform parents of expectations, rewards and sanctions. I also contact the parents on a regular basis.
    My class is usually well behaved the majority of the time and I think it was a case of children and teacher being tired and looking forward to half term.

    Thank you for all your replies.

    I
     
  17. mystery10

    mystery10 Occasional commenter

    You can join my gang of goody goodies then!![​IMG]
     
  18. zannar

    zannar New commenter

  19. InkyP

    InkyP Star commenter

    It was a general point - a problem I encounter frequently.
     

Share This Page