1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

Where are all the Labour supporters.I don't hear too many cheers?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by oldsomeman, Aug 15, 2019.

  1. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    To a large extent I agree with Jude.
    I have worked in many areas both before and after being a teacher and indeed many folks who are not actively engaged in that area are unaware of how to deal. As long as they get the outcome they want many will accept s0illy propositions.
    Making deal is being able to see to the opportunity 0presented and being prepared to walk away or refuse if you don't like the offer At the end you have to know your own mind whether you want it or not. All actions have a result and all results have a consequence. That's the place of foresight, based upon experience, or in some, cases on hope. But you never show your hand when dealing. and should be prepared to challenge preconceptions of outcomes,
    This forum is full of those who have pre-judged outcomes and to say the least, are pessimistic!
    border_walker and BelleDuJour like this.
  2. phlogiston

    phlogiston Star commenter

    The trouble is that leaving the EU isn't like buying a car. If I don't like the offer when looking at a car I walk off and get a car somewhere else.
    Coming to arrangements about leaving the EU isn't like that. They offer a set of arrangements, but if we don't like them the option is a worse set of deals or staying in. No deal isn't like leaving a car dealer and going somewhere else.
  3. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    What cards do we hold in this hand of ours?
    • We shan't let you buy our cars?
    • We shall send your nationals home?
    • We won't let you come here on holiday?
    1. They don't buy our cars and they can just divert any production/assembly to Eastern Europe.
    2. London would be brought to a halt. There'd be nobody to pick crops in the East of England.
    3. Yeah, that'd really help the exchequer.
    So what are these trump cards? I'd love to know!
  4. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    The arrangements on offer are nothing to do with deals on trade. They are purely about leaving the EU. Negotiations on a future trade deal haven't even begin yet, so nobody knows what might or might not be on offer.
  5. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    You have been stating this for years. Yet folks still insist that a no-deal means we crash out when in reality we have not even started dealing yet(unless it's going on quietly) the deal is to do with the relationship we are to have with the EU and not what we actually will do. So no deal is a misnomer. May's deal was simply the basis for making deals and not deals themselves.
    border_walker likes this.
  6. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    As usual you are stating what comes out of the back end of male bovines.
  7. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    Come on @oldsomeman

    You introduced the idea of a card game and a hand. So what cards do we hold of which the EU is unaware? It's your metaphor!

    They don't know how strong our position is or is not or whether we are bluffing? Is that your view? Hopelessly childlike but back it up!

    How do we convince them we're a major player and they would do well to defer to us? Being that there are 27 of them and they have Germany and France?

    I wait all agog!
  8. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    I think you might be waiting quite a while.
    bombaysapphire, vannie and ilovesooty like this.
  9. EmanuelShadrack

    EmanuelShadrack Star commenter

    In the eyes of certain commenters, Brexit is exactly like a mixture of buying a car (or produce from a market stall, if you prefer) and playing a hand of poker where we have the nuts (the best possible cards).

    If only everyone had realized sooner, this whole nonsense could have been cleared up in an instant.
  10. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    What's so hard to understand?

    1 There's a withdrawal agreement (and we can't agree amongst ourselves on THAT so Gawd help us when it gets to 2)
    2 Followed by a trade agreement

    And what makes Britain think there's to be no border? Or a magic one-way border. People we don't like can't get in but WE can come and go as we please to THEIR countries?

    If they don't have a backstop the RoI is just going to be flooded with all sorts of American and Chinese rubbish which we will evidently accept with open arms but the EU emphatically does not want! And why should they? If we don't want to be PART of it then we'll have to be separate FROM it. And have a border!!!!


    There is no Venn diagram where you be both IN and OUT of something simultaneously. No intersecting set.
  11. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Star commenter

    Seems there is nonsense on both sides of the fence.
    The UK has no compelling need for a border.
    border_walker likes this.
  12. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    The EU have said there will be no hard border, and the RoI have confirmed that to be the case, Nobody wants a hard border for the simple reason that it could trigger the collapse of the Good Friday Agreement. For that reason, Michel Barnier has already confirmed that the necessary checks on imports will not take place at the border. It will be, if you will, a soft border (i.e. with no customs posts, armed guards or any other barrier).

    Which are "their countries" (plural)? UK residents cannot go beyond Eire without required documentation, just as they cannot, for example, use the CTA to travel to Jersey and then nip across the water into France.

    The whole of the EU (including the UK) imports huge quantities of American and Chinese rubbish already. It is unlikely that either the EU or the UK will suddenly change laws to allow toys that are dangerous to children to be imported, or to allow diseased meet to be sold in the shops. Such an idea is of benefit to nobody other than remainers still desperately wedded to Project Fear.
    border_walker and oldsomeman like this.
  13. Jude Fawley

    Jude Fawley Star commenter

    Mr Corbyn has been talking to the SNP and is 'open to' passing a law to frustrate the will of the people.

    Is it just fascist that think they know what's best for the people and then act on it?

    We tell them what to do since they've been so stupid to want power. There's a lot of MPs who will be getting their P45s
  14. oldsomeman

    oldsomeman Star commenter

    If you were to read what you call an infantile post, and no it doesn't come out of my rear as another poster allergies, the fact remains the so-called deal is to sort out relationships while the trade deals take place
    No one on here has any idea what might be decided as to actual deals, although plenty of suggestions are offered, with not a lot of evidence.
    The no deal means we wont have a 'political' relationship, and all the details about maintaining status quo while negotiations take place will be nul and void.
    Its not a deal in that it was agreed because May accepted it. It was handed to her by the Eu and failing to negotiate anything else she had to take it or lose face. So unless you see it as a deal to be told how we should act and undertake a reltionship with the EU as the only one possible it is more demand rather than agreement.
    I read the 60 pages of the deal and as it so happens most of it I agreed with and was indeed willing to undertake the Irish question until I realised that part meant we might be tied to the apron strings of the EU for as long as they so desired but with few benefits of leaving.
    I won't be silenced in my view even if you consider yourself above me as the use of infantile. for a 73-year-old man. Don't like it? Then tough I am not being bullied out of my view although I do consider your views.
    BelleDuJour likes this.
  15. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Star commenter

  16. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    I'm afraid you're wrong. The withdrawal agreement precedes trade deals. You seem to think they are synchronous. They are not. You used the word "while" as if you believe the different negotiations are conducted at the same time. But I confess I didn't find your argument clear.

    I refer, in particular, to your second paragraph. Nor am I sure you truly understand the meaning of "deal" and "no deal" in the various contexts.

    If we are no longer to belong to the EU we will have to accept a border on the island of Ireland or a border in the Irish Sea. Which do you prefer?
  17. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    No. We will have to accept that the EU and Eire have decided that there will not be either such border. They have made it clear that checks will be done away from the border - probably in bonded warehouses in Dublin or at the premises of licensed exporters and importers.
  18. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    When is a border not a border? When it's a 'soft border'?

    But that's still a border.

    However it's done - and I can quite accept the 'technological solution', the endless debate about which which has clogged up pages of this forum - it's still going to be different from the current arrangement of goods moving between the UK & the rest of the EU

    Because the UK will be outside the EU and the RoI will be in it.
  19. grumpydogwoman

    grumpydogwoman Star commenter

    That border is also essential to our new trading partners.

    Imagine this.

    Trump kindly agrees to let us have US cars at an advantageous price. An offer not, of course, open to the EU. These cheap vehicles are purchased in the U.K. and driven merrily over to N Ireland and thence to the RoI and beyond.

    I don't think the US would be too happy to see EU citizens avoiding the tariffs set for that trading bloc. Same applies to all other commodities. Make a deal with the U.K. and your goods will be all over Europe at that price within 3 days.

    There must be a border. Our new trading partners will insist upon it! This is not the spiteful exigence of the EU as it's portrayed. It's common sense. Would we make a deal with Australia specifically and then just stand by while goods destined for their shores were simply onward-shipped to Japan, Malaysia, Singapore? Hardly.
  20. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Star commenter

    I'm imagining as hard as I can.. Why would the US government pay its car manufactures a subsidy so they could sell cars at a lower price in the UK compared to the EU.?

Share This Page