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When we hear of someone's unsuccessful job interview, driving test failure...

Discussion in 'Personal' started by needabreak, Sep 21, 2016.

  1. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Grades of failure are better. B1, B2, C1, C2, D.
     
  2. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    Must be all that high flying. Difficult to have a perspective from a hovering helicopter.
     
    sabrinakat likes this.
  3. kareneliot

    kareneliot Occasional commenter

    I don't know what you mean. I sent my child to the school, the teachers taught her stuff, she took exams and got good results. There were high expectations, worst Maths GCSE that year across 130+ was an A.
     
  4. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    Is that your real name @kareneliot? If so you might consider changing it as it makes you identifiable.
     
  5. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    Good for her, I'm surprised you don't think she (or the other 130) would be bright enough to achieve the same in a comp.
     
    sabrinakat likes this.
  6. kareneliot

    kareneliot Occasional commenter

    Don't worry. Karen Eliot belongs to nobody and is no one.
     
  7. kareneliot

    kareneliot Occasional commenter

    If I thought that I might have chosen a comp. I could see how well she would to at a selective school, the comp was less predictable.
     
  8. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    You should have more faith in her abilities and yours as a parent.
     
    sabrinakat likes this.
  9. kareneliot

    kareneliot Occasional commenter

    What would have been the benefit of an uncertain comp over a predictable selective school? Why take chances?
     
  10. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Have you never come acroos kids in the bottom set at Comprehensives who are terribly negative and refuse to do work because "I'm thick/I can't do anything " etc.

    That will be the mindset of 80% of all pupils when 20% 'pass' an exam at age 11 years and 80% 'fail it'.

    Most kids now cope with not being in the top set but if they are deemed unsuitable for the school that that top set will go to, that's another matter.
    Those who develop the knack of pasing the 11+ test will not necessarily be the ones who can perform at a high level consistently in most school subjects.

    The requirement on teachers to teach the National Curriculum to everyone and to differentiate ( giving all pupils challenging but achievable work ) surely does away with the (flawed) rationale for the 11+? It also means that given the right funding (as if that will happen!), Secondary Moderns should also be able to deliver a Grammar school education to their top cohort, only to have them poached further down the line when they pass another test at age 13.
    Will those who go to the Grammar school at age 11 also take the 13+ and be taken off the school roll if higher scoring pupils from non-Grammar schools exceed their scores? If not, where will the extra places come from?
     
    needabreak likes this.
  11. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    To your daughter, maybe none. The gene pool however would definitely benefit from everybody being educated together. For that to be fully effective private schools need to go as well (or at least only allow them tax relief on their contributions to the communities they are situated in).
     
  12. kareneliot

    kareneliot Occasional commenter

    Locally well over 90% of applicants fail. The failures don't consider themselves failures or thick.
     
  13. kareneliot

    kareneliot Occasional commenter

    How so? My child having a less successful outcome will somehow make another child's more successful?
     
  14. Nanook_rubs_it

    Nanook_rubs_it Star commenter

    You said it yourself:

    Works as much in a comp as anywhere else.
     
  15. emilystrange

    emilystrange Star commenter

    you have that in writing? you know exactly what goes on in every child's head? sweeping generalisations like this are rather silly when there's no way you could possibly know.
     
    sabrinakat and needabreak like this.
  16. kareneliot

    kareneliot Occasional commenter

    I know some of the "failures" albeit not all.
     
  17. kareneliot

    kareneliot Occasional commenter

    But can you create the same environment. No locked doors. Free access to IT rooms 8-5, minimal homework and general personal freedom to own use phones, music players etc (where permitted).
     
  18. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    Being happy and being the best you can be are two issues since even knowing your potential can be a difficult concept for a young person, especially when you are landed with a can't do label and self fulfilling can't do perception of yourself. Being the best you can be requires fairly open access to information that others have the selective system by definition selects the information that is available to those who have passed and been deemed more suitable. The system is therefore limiting the information available to others. In limiting availability of information you are in fact limiting many individuals ability to find out what their personal best actually is. It is a loaded system of social control to ensure the status quo is not threatened by many well educated academic citizens.

    As 11+ supporters love the personal limited experience argument, I might add that I cannot count the number of times former friends said they wouldn't be able to talk to me anymore since I was "too clever" having got into uni.

    Sometimes, I am not sure the working class perception of themselves is understood at all by many in the middle classes.

    Other times I'm not sure that some of the middle classes are at all altruistic enough to really care. I'm not sure I blame them (even if I don't agree with them), after all they are very busy making ends meet, getting by and looking after their own while probably paying proportionately more tax into a system they don't think they get a great deal back from which they often use to justify their disinterest with others less fortunate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
  19. kareneliot

    kareneliot Occasional commenter

    So you would seek to create fairness by limiting everyone.
     
  20. needabreak

    needabreak Star commenter

    No I would create fairness by providing the opportunity to succeed for all, by not limiting the information available to some.
     
    sabrinakat likes this.

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