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When out of work DO sign on.

Discussion in 'Supply teaching' started by skills324, Sep 2, 2012.

  1. skills324

    skills324 New commenter

    When I came to the end of term I planned to try and find summer work until I started getting more supply work in the Autumn term. However on the last day of term a school I worked out offered me a terms work from tomorrow until christmas, probably longer. So I decided not to find a summer job as i'd need my summer holiday and rest and recovery etc.

    I was unsure about signing on and what the rules would be (i've never signed on before). I was able to and have recieved JSA over the holiday (which is better than nothing). Even though I had a job to go to I was still able to receive the benefit but I still had to be actively seeking work (pretty much just had to play the game and apply for jobs 3 times each week).
    I recently told them I now have a job starting Monday and they have paid my first months trian travel and also paid for a suit for me from Burtons.
    So I really would recommend signing on if you're out of work.
  2. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    It's particularly important for those still looking for their career post to sign on. If you qualify for Income Based JSA, not only can you get Housing Benefit and Council Tax relief and free NHS services on top of your JSA money, they will also pay your travel costs to interview if it more than 1.5 hours (I think) from home. They used to pay for fares in excess of one hour from base.
    Miss jubilee received rail warrants and tube fares for the two interviews that lead to her job in London over 2 years ago.
    Some people can't afford to apply for distant jobs and it's worth knowing that the jobcentre can make it possible for you to be in the running.
  3. hammie

    hammie Lead commenter

    i might be being old fashioned, but i believe it also means that your "stamp gets paid too" ie national insurance and state pension contributions. Especially for women who have taken a career break this can be extremely important further down the line
  4. I know I should have signed on for the Summer but I just could bring myself to make the call.
    Does anyone else find signing on really depressing? I have a career I love (if only I could actually find a permanent job) and good qualifications but find signing on really difficult. I don't envy the people who struggle to write or keep accurate records!
  5. I know what you mean MissT.

    I signed on in the middle of the summer holiday and today was my first meeting. So difficult - the questions about 'what have you been doing to find work....' I explained I work on supply and don't expect to get the call for a couple of weeks, at the earliest, but they have to ask, it is their job.

    My advice would be to do it though. I bet you paid your taxes when you were working, so you are entitled.

  6. Hi I am sorry but I don t think it's right to sign on over summer because you want some rest and relaxation and because it's easier than getting a summet job. The rest of us are paying for that and your reductions in council tax etc. just because,you can doesn't make it right!

    Fair enough if you have tried to get a job and genuinely cannot but not if you can t be bothered. I have a job every holiday to avoid signing on. I am very broke at the moment and don t anticipate any pay going into my account for steady two more Weeks but I manage. I have spent no money all summer despite desperately needing maternity clothes. Not ideal but I d rather do that than sign on. I don t think it's right to,boast about what you can get. Other people don t get a long summer off work they have to carry,on working. Makes,me a,little cross.
  7. buryblade

    buryblade New commenter

    I signed on during the summer and had to go through the "interview" process. Apparently you are not allowed to have a Jobseekers Agreement that says you are looking for teaching work, as the job you are looking for must be available ASAP, so I have had to seek jobs in the catering trade. My consultant has tried to convince me to go for a position as a sandwich board man outside Subway and for a 12 grand a year full-time, permanent position at Carphone Warehouse (for which I was encouraged to "doctor" my cv). The whole thing seems a farce as the first question on someones lips when they see my cv would surely be if I intend to quit teaching. An honest answer would presumably end the interview promptly.
    In reply to the above post, I've worked full time for the past 20 years so have paid in plenty of contributions. Why shouldn't I claim back something that I am entitled to. I would happlily work over the summer if I could find a job that would exceed my childcare costs.
  8. I disagree with you. I have worked since I was 17 and I am now 41. I have done all manor of work, some at shockingly low rates of pay before the rates of pay were set by the Government. Like lots of student back in the 1990's, I had a very small grant. (this would have be funded through tax payers I know). For 16 years I have worked continually paying vast amounts of NI and pension. My last pay slip shows that I pay £640 a month in TAX and NI without what is taken out in pension. NI and TAX deductions amount to £7680 a year or £147 a week. JSA is amount £66 week. So each week I worked 2 and bit people were being supported by me. I haven't taken into account the amounts people may get towards rent etc.
    All Supply teachers do is sign on during the holidays when there is very little chance of getting a job. Given that agencies have taken over the work of LEA in supply teachers to schools, A supply teachers pay is peanuts and over the year if they were to be paid pro rata would much less. some agencies pay even less and take out an amount towards holiday pay.
    Supply teachers pay NI and TAX like everyone else. There are thousands and thousands of people who have NEVER worked, will never work and live in households where neither their parents or grandparents have ever worked. These people are supported by the TAX payer too because the Government doesn't or cannot do anything about it. I know people who have never worked who drive cards, wear nice clothes and have homes on new estates because many new estates have to provide social housing. I know people who are living on a knifes edge because they have no paid employment.
    It is an argument which could go on for ever but I dont't know many employers willling to take someone on for 5 or 6 weeks and pay them legally ( ie not cash in hand). The cost of training and setting up employment records, obtaining references etc are not viable.
    The only answer is to put the work of the Supply Teacher in the hands of the LEA who then pay them proper rates and make it a job whereby LEA employ a set number of teachers who are then sent to various schools. This could be on demand and if the Supply Teacher has no request for their servcies then they go to the nearest school on those days and offer literacy, reading and numeracy support. Supply Teachers could still be employed on a Part time basis if that is their request but then they get part time rates and no benefit. Schools would build a bank of Supply Teachers who know the school, the children and the parents. It may also mean that during bad weather schools could stay open as they would have CRB checked staff known to the school in their door stop.
    LEA's should then only engage the number of teachers that they need.
  9. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    You get a free NI credit when signing on and not paying NI on any part-time work that you might be doing.
    It goes towards your State Retirement Pension entitlement.
    It can indeed be useful for those women (and others) who have had to take a career break.
    It is worth knowing, however, that anyone who has child benefit in their name (used to be called Family Allowance) and who does not work in an entire tax year (and doesn't sign on because they are not entitled to any JSA payments) still has their State pension safeguardsed through HRP-Home responsibilities protection. Each full tax year on HRP reduces the number of NI years that you need for a full State pension.
    Those who are official carers for adults also get a reduction in NI years.
    For claiming JSA, you have to be able to say that you are available for f/t work and actively seeking f/t work. You are allowed to be actively seeking temporary work if you have future work lined up. You are under no obligation to pretend to an employer that you are available longer-term and are perfectly entitled to tell them at interview that you applied for the job because the jobcentre made you. Make it clear that you will take the work if it is offered but will obviously carry on looking for teaching work.
  10. I take your answers on board but still don t think it's right to claim benefits over the summer just because you can t be bothered to get a job and want to relax. In that case do that but save up when you are working to pay for it. Even if you have worked since you were 17 and paid NI and tax contributions since then,which I have also done, I still don t think this,makes it ok to claim now just because you don t want to work during the summer. Pretending to apply seriously for one job a week to keep your benefits just makes a joke of the,whole system.

    Don t forget our tax contributions go towards NHS,maternity,leave benefits and free services we have which I am very grateful for now having spent time in America recently.

    Of course it's wrong those people who are on long term benefits without a good reason and generation after generation just sit and do nothing whilst claiming benefits but that's not the issue we are talking about here.,I also have nothing against people who have looked for summer jobs and cannot get one or the cost of childcare,out weighs the wages from the job so it is pointless. I too will be in that situation next year but won t be claiming benefits if I cannot help it but will be looking for a job that fits in with childcare if I can. I have had several holiday jobs which I ve got quite easily so they are out there.

    So in my opinion to openly claim benefits over the summer because you just want to relax and pretend to apply for jobs to keep the benefits is not right and shouldn't be encouraged.

  11. Well you are very lucky then because they are NOT out there for everyone. In some areas it is VERY difficult to find a holiday job. There are many students now who cannot find holiday jobs and they always seemed to be able to in days gone by. The jobs simply aren't there.
  12. AthenaMarina

    AthenaMarina New commenter

    I went back to supply at the end of July 2011. It's gone well but I've joined 6 agencies - sometimes you need to - & then my previous boss said no more references when the only one that had summer work tried to call! I WANTED summer work!
    Maybe next summer I can get something non teaching it's just I was at my last job 9 years & now they don't want anyone else to call re references! So I can't use that. So unless my agencies will gove me a reference or I can get a summer job without one I WILL be signing on next summer. I'm also a life coach but that's been very slow, one have one client since January! (Who is still with me & loves what I do)
  13. Both my husband and I (sorry to sound like the Queen) have been out of work for about eighteen months: I was made redundant from my teaching job while my husband's firm was taken over and closed down, taking his pension pot and any hope of redundancy pay with it. He is 60, and I will be 59 next month. We have both been lving on benefits since then, since neither of us has been able to find any work that pays anything more than travel costs. Both of us have found the Job Centre to be completley useless in helping us to get back into work; indeed, we both feel that this is not its aim at all. Our 'Advisors' only seem keen to get us to sign a piece of paper, signifying that we have been given details of highly inappropriate jobs, which we would have no hope of getting, and occasionally sending us to some 'Centre' to see a 'Consultant' who then questions why we have been referred to them in the first place. Certainly, the JC was no use in helping us to get the benefits to which we are entitled; the excellent CAB was invaluable for this!
    TP has at last sorted out my pension, which will take me out of JSA. If I claim my pension now, I will no longer bother signing on, as I have well over the minimum thirty years NI contributions for a state pension, and signing on just to get my stamp paid will not help me with dental costs, for example. How this will effect my husband's claim, or council Tax reductions etc, we do not yet know. Back to CAB, as the JC will certainly not know.
  14. Jenny I am glad you have finally got your pension sorted out. It's taken some doing. Things may begin to look up a bit for you now.
  15. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    Alarm bells ringing here!
    Please do not triger your TPS pension early until you have understood all the implications of doing so.
    Your situation, I suspect, is that you have both used up your entitlementto JSA Contributory, based on your NI contributions, and are now getting JSA Income Based (means-tested), calculated as a couple.
    Is that the case? Is any JSA IncomeBased reduced because of savings over the allowable minimum or have any savings reduced to give you full entitlement to your JSA Couple's assessment?
    If you trigger you pension ealy, the lump sum from a 30 year career will be around £30k and that in itself will immediately cancel out your household's entitlement to JSA Income Based. You will be expected to live on the money until your savings are back within claim limits and you will not get JSA early by spending the money quickly (paying off a mortgage etc) as they will say you have intentionally impoverished yourself!
    The monthly pension payment will also be used to reduce or cancel out your household's entitlement to JSA and your husband will simply get an NI credit by continuing to sign on.
    You will lose entitlement to Council Tax relief, Housing Benefit if that aplies, and NHS services.
    If you do claim the TPS pension, your husband might be able to claim another 26 weeks of JSA Contribuory (at £71 per weeek) if he paid enough NI in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011.
    BUT to do that he would need to close his current claim immediately, dating the closure the day after he last signed on! That's because, with 12 full benefit Weeks of NOT claiming, he could start another claim for JSA Contributory in 2012 (just enough time to have a 12 week gap and still be able to start a 2012 claim at the end of December, claiming on-line as their offices will be closed). He will then get JSA irrespective of your financial 'windfall' from the pension lump sum and monthly pension.
    Assuming that you still get JSA Income Based as a couple, which you will lose by getting your pension early, you should work out how long you can manage on that, with the extras like NHS free dental and optical for both of you and Council TAX Relief and winter fuel payments etc, and compare it with what you will have to live on from the pension (with no benefit top-ups).
    Your pension will increase the longer you can manage without triggering it.
    My own circumstances are that I don't fall into Incomed Based JSA so decided to trigger my pension early as It adds to Mr jubilee's pension and I can invest the lump sum to make up for the actuarial reduction to the pension.
    PM my INBOX if you want my take on specific details that you don't want to post on the thread.
    Consider getting advice at the Citizens' Advice Bureau, especially to see if you are claiming everything thta you can from the Benefits System.
  16. Thank you, Jubilee, for your very informative message. I have not yet triggered the pension as, as you pointed out, I am not sure whether we will be any better off overall, after taking everything (Council Tax reduction, etc) into consideration. I have made an appointment with the CAB, which we found very helpful before, so we can get an idea of which route to take.
    At the moment, we get Council Tax relief, so we only pay about £40 per month instead of over £200. We are on JSA Income based, which brings in £127 per week. Any savings we had were exhausted long ago, as we used them to pay off our remaining mortgage.
  17. Pennyforyourthoughts

    Pennyforyourthoughts Occasional commenter

    If you are with Agencies and signed on for the summer, the Job Center treats this as, you have left the Agency, and you then start afresh with Job seekers. In effect when you tell the JC that you are now working again with the Agency they give you a P45 which YOU MUST pass to your Agency so they can pay you by the correct code and take into account what you have earned via Job seekers, or you could have the Tax man after you because you earned more than the Agency thinks you did and in total over the year due to pay more tax.

    Secondly, if you sign on, the Agency may just say that you signed off with them and that you need to re register with them. So watch out for this as by the time that you actually get work it could be more than 3 months and they would have to do another CRB and references again.

    So sometimes it is not worth signing on. If you really do need the money I can understand, but when I chose to continue with supply teaching I took the opinion that I do not work in the holidays just like every other teacher.... my rate of pay covers for holidays as does the Agencies pay rate covers holidays also now, so why sign on in the holidays, I am surprised that the ob Center doesn't challenge this holiday pay from supply teachers rates of pay.

    Now if for some reason I do not get work in Sept ....come October I sign on until work comes in.... I feel I am legally entitled to this as effectively the Agency has no work for me and not employing me. Yes work usually rolls in, and for a couple of years JS has all fizzled out within a couple of weeks even before they need pay me due to the average hours over the couple of weeks, but it could go on for several weeks in which case it is something coming in.
  18. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    There is no need to tell your agency or agencies that you are signing on during the holiday periods or even when signing on in term time when you have no work or under 16 hours of work.
    The agency don't need to give you a P45 and you don't need to re-register with them.
    The Jobcentre will contact them as your last employer, to confirm that you last worked on date X and that the placement was not due to continue. It doesn't matter if the agency has future work lined up for you; you can still claim JSA in the unemployed interim period.
    You don't have to give your JSA generated P45 to your agency when you close the JSA claim but you can if you want. It doesn't necessarily trigger extra tax.
    JSA is potentially taxable. You will only actually pay tax on it if you use up your tax code allowance in the tax year. If you only earn £5k, for instance, with your agency and get £2k in JSA, you won't be liable for any tax as you can earn over that total amount before any tax is due.
    The best way, in my opinion, of sorting out the tax issue is to wait until after the end of the tax year and collect together all your P60s , P45s from employers you left in the tax year and P45s from JSA. use the relevany figures on all of those to complete a tax form where you can also claim your professional fees (Union subs, PE uniform allowance etc) and enter any savings interest etc.
    If you have paid interest on any savings, you may be due some or all of it back.
    Any unused tax allowance will cancel out the equivalent amount of JSA, leaving any residue potentially liable for tax.
    The trouble with doing things that way is that you could get a day's work per week in Sept/Oct and it will cancel out your JSA.
    Also, unless you managed to get full employment in the school year, you haven't actually earned holiday pay to support yourself in designated holiday periods. The holiday pay element in one good week of work might be used to support you in another week when you only get one day of work or half a day of work.
    Lots of temporary teachers take summer work and you are entitled to claim JSA in school holiday periods when you are unemployed and are available for work, even if the chances of getting any work are slim.

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