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Discussion in 'Personal' started by lanokia, Feb 4, 2016.
Those poor refugees. That video really puts things into perspective. I guess I would do what they have done - gather up what I could carry and try to find sanctuary.
Damnit! Wish I'd put a poll on...
A vibrant multi-ethnic society reduced to rubble... yeah sure, not a democracy, yeah an enemy of Israel... I'm not unrealistic... but shocking all the same.
And Turkey says more are coming, the recent Russian offensive on Aleppo only helping to create a new surge of refugees fleeing the violence.
This is one of the most powerful images...
Lanokia's video has been removed but I have seen sabrinakat's before. I expect we would all do whatever we needed to do to protect our families.
Hmmm... user removed...
In answer to the question in the subject line, I'd take my entire family (not just the young, fit men) to the nearest safe country, claim asylum there, as per the law, and be very grateful for any help they offered to me and my family. If I were a young, fit, male of fighting age, I just might go back and fight for my homeland. But that's just me.
There's nothing left to stay for is there?
That was my thought... and I doubt life in a refugee camp in Turkey is paradise [or even remotely acceptable].
So they'll inevitably struggle to come our way...
It might appeal to some. My sister was forever pestering her husband to knock two rooms into one in a house they had some years ago.
It's taken me a while to formulate a reply to your question Lanokia and I believe that my reaction would be similar to Vladimir's.
Although I might be more selective about the safe country chosen for my family.
Your points will be ignored by the Liberal thought police.
This reminds me of the reaction of my Year 6 class to the Tsunami in Japan in 2011. "If it was me, I'd have just swum to safety" "I'd have run quicker" "I'd have just got in my car and driven faster than the water". It's comforting to think that we are actually in control and that suffering is something that we can ward off with sensible and/or moral behaviour, and that it isn't just down to chance and luck.
But it's not true. And by believing that we really would do better in those circumstances serves only to alleviate our own guilt at not being willing to offer assistance. It's no accident that what you claim you would do is exactly the opposite of many of the things refugees have been criticised for. It's a rather transparent way of justifying limitations on your capacity to empathise.
Personally, I have no idea how I would cope in this circumstance. I'd like to think that I'd be able to formulate a plan to keep my family safe and that I'd be able to carry it through and start to rebuild a life. But I can imagine it'd be extremely difficult under normal circumstances - a house move can be stressful enough - but having lost everything, and not knowing where is safe to move to, losing the infrastructure and organisation of society that we're accustomed to, dealing with the psychological trauma of living in a war zone AND trying to organise how to get out, I'm not sure I'd be thinking clearly enough. I can imagine I'd follow others, I'd take advice on how and where to go from people who knew people who'd made the journey and my decision on where to go would probably depend on if I had family elsewhere, or people I knew who would help me start up again, or help me get a job, or where I knew that the host country were willing and able to cater for the needs of so many, if I could speak the language, if I had heard anything about it whatsoever. It would probably be influenced by what I'd heard about the refugee camps, and put off by horror stories and drawn towards the camps where people I knew were. Then again, there's a good chance I'd want to stay simply out of fear of what I'd be taking my family out into if we left. I might well suggest my husband or my brother go on ahead and suss out the route in advance before I try moving the kids. My husband would probably insist he goes ahead to make sure it's safe before we consider travelling into the unknown with 3 small children. Plus, it's not just my family, but what about my parents, they are much older and might not be able to move as easily, would I want to stay and look after them? I guess it depends on how desperate the situation is.
So I genuinely don't know what I'd do and how I'd cope, if I'd cope, and I can't think about it too much because it breaks my heart that there are people who are facing these decisions.
To my knowledge Jordan is a 'safe' country. Lebanon is mostly safe. And refugees who've gone to these countries are not the ones now migrating further into Europe.
Turkey is not safe. The border zone is a warzone with Turkish forces laying siege to Kurdish towns in an effort to drive out the PKK. The Turkish government is increasingly authoritarian and has been actively interfering in Syria, exacerbating the crisis [as have we, Russia and the USA]. Also I suspect [and I'll google for evidence later] that Turkey has been using the migrant crisis to blackmail Europe into providing more aid to them. It seems too coincidental the suddenly in the summer of 2014 the refugees just decided to up and leave Turkey in their thousands as they have [and continue to do]...
Are the Turks encouraging them?
Part of the problem, from what I understand, with Jordan and Lebanon is that refugees there are not legally allowed to work, meaning that they have no means of supporting their family long term. Also Lebanon has no official refugee camps, meaning that families there are having to use makeshift shelters or use abandoned buildings.
I'm sure that's better than being bombed or shot at, but only in the short term. It's easy to be grateful when it's a couple of weeks, or a few months, or a year or so, but when you're looking at years and years ahead of living with nothing, no formal schooling for your children so their future is out the window too, then it's easy to see why people would not simply be grateful to get to the nearest safe country and actually have aspirations to live a full, happy life, rather than simply exist.
Well put. Noone should have to live in the conditions shown in the photos, but by the same token, they shouldn't be a reason for thousands of people to head straight for the UK and other perceived richer countries like Sweden and Norway, bypassing several safe countries along the way. Add to that the fact that many, if not most of the migrants are not refugees from war-torn countries, but people looking for a free ride to a better life. Whilst I don't blame them for wanting that, I do blame silly leaders like Merkel who remove all controls and create a situation we can't cope with. That is now evident as shown by Sweden's policy reversal. Now they are planning to refuse asylum for thousands and I suppose they will have to deport them. No doubt Sweden opened its doors in good faith, but look what has happened, and there is no sign of the influx slowing down. Quite the opposite in fact. I'd also add that when even genuine refugees refused to claim asylum in the first 'safe' country, they then, by law, ceased to be asylum seekers. Countries like Italy have been playing pass the parcel and moved migrants on to the north at their expense, but I don't see why the UK should become the final destination for all the migrants who enter the EU, illegally or otherwise, just because the EU couldn't organise a booze-up in a brewery. Enough!
Don't think I don't agree with you on the above, because I do. I would be tentative in using the word 'safe' to refer to Turkey because war could easily spill over into there. But does that mean they should all come here, to the UK?