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What would you think ?

Discussion in 'Primary' started by ff392, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    What I find sad is that you think it helps young children learn about faith by making those who don't believe take part in the rituals. It sends the complete wrong message to children.
    As for the brainwash comment - anthing that tells children that something is real is brainwashing of a certain kind.
    I don't work in a Catholic school yet we manage to learn about manners and treating each other with respect. That includes people's religion.
  2. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    So why should children be made to take part? This is a state school is it not?

    I know plenty about Catholic schools thank you. I attended one myself. We can have an open discussion about religion if you want but usually people don't want to.
  3. dagnabit

    dagnabit New commenter

    Milgod how is it sending the wrong message to children? No-one stands at the front shouting I am doing this but I don't believe in it! The children are just watching good role models, they don't pick up on undercurrents wafting from disgruntled atheists. Real faith will not be found in a child of primary age because they do not understand enough about it yet. But they are taught that they are part of God's family, which I am sure stands true whether you are Catholic or not. The OP made out that the new head was excessively religious and was asking for something that was beyond their job description. My point is - and thankfully I am not alone here - that the head is a perfectly normal catholic head and the requests made were within what most teachers in catholic schools would find acceptable.And yes children should be made to take part, as this is also made totally clear in diocesan policy before the parents accept a place. If the OP is not comfortable they need to start job hunting. There will always be you detractors of faith schools out there ready to cast the odd stone, but we can take it. The cruel nuns have obviously made you bitter. [​IMG]
  4. Would a vegetarian apply to work in a butcher's? If they did would you think it reasonable for them to abstain from serving meat?
  5. It seems to me that making children participate in an activity that they do not understand, indeed cannot understand, repeatedly, and without any indication that it's a personal belief system that not everyone subscribes to is exactly brainwashing.
    We, as teachers, present facts and systems of reasoning (such as maths) in a way that invites little debate, precisely because children can't understand, for example, the logical underpinning of the concept of a zero. That's alright(ish), because realistically there's little other choice if we want to raise functional human beings.
    To then go on to present religious practise in the exact same way is a fundamental abuse of our responsibilities as educators. I find it repulsive.
  6. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    FF392, I can't see beyond your grammar. Sorry.

  7. WolfPaul

    WolfPaul Occasional commenter

    Sorry Milgod, I've read your last post several times, but missed your apology for saying I'd written things that I hadn't, or for accusing people of lying when I hadn't. Must be me, obviously.
  8. inky

    inky Lead commenter

    Listen, why not go further and say the same thing of parents?

  9. dagnabit

    dagnabit New commenter

    Then please for the love of God never do it. Simples.
  10. If this were a topic about indoctrination at home, I most certainly would.
  11. Because ignoring a problem is always the very best of solutions. Excellent.
  12. I don't believe that any child should be institutionally taught that any religion is true. Ever.
    I do believe that education about religions is important, from Primary onwards.
  13. dagnabit

    dagnabit New commenter

    Christmas must be a bundle of laughs in your house then. [​IMG] Or do you take part in this heavy religious time of year under protest, squirming over how society is making you participate in something you don't believe in? Still its worth it for the ugly jumpers and new underwear. You catholic bashers take the good stuff when it suits you though.Shameful it is.
  14. I'm sorry, I fail to see what not wanting children indoctrinated into religion has to do with "catholic bashing" or Christmas.
    I'm sure you see the same problem with children being indoctrinated as muslims, or hindus, or even protestants? I just go further and see the indoctrination itself as the problem, not just the religion that is chosen.
  15. dagnabit

    dagnabit New commenter

    We don't see it as indoctrination. There is nothing wrong with teaching children what christmas is for, and demonstrating to them your belief in it. This goes back to the OP not wanting to take part in the Ash Wednesday service - do they show the same reluctance at Christmas? I doubt it very much. Religious education taught within a faith is easier to swallow than that taught by believers in nothing that look on the religion (whichever it is) as a quaint curiosity. Most of our school holidays are based on religious festivals the reasons for which have been forgotten. Most non-faith school teachers probably couldn't teach about them without googling it.
  16. Do you actually know why Christmas is in December? Why we have Christmas trees?
    Your assumption of the ignorance of "non-faith" teachers is deeply insulting.
    Plus, the idea that an atheist is unable to give a more fair and balanced account of religion than one of its subscribers is ridiculous. Do you teach Islam in the same way as you teach Christianity? If not, why not?
  17. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    Your ignorance knows no bounds.
    Firstly (as I've been doing time connectives today), Christmas to many people is a secular holiday. This has been discussed in detail previously on this forum. The OP also mentioned that they do take part in the service just that they didn't want to have the sign of the cross as this wasn't in their beliefs.
    Secondly, you yourself even say that what the holidays are based on has been forgotten. Does this not show you that our society has rid itself of the shackles that religion imposes?
    Finally, what a stupid comment about non-faith school teachers. Are there no teachers in non-faith schools that follow religion? Of course there are because we let people have freedom to choose, unlike Catholic schools.
  18. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    You won't be getting an apology either. You stated 'Post 1 doesn't refer to children at all, and I can't see any suggestion in any of the OP's subsequent post that suggest this at all' (I had to copy and paste as I can't use the multi-quote thingy). That says to me that the OP never mentioned children. They did on about post 10.

    I'll wait for an apology . . . . .

    As for first/firstly - I believe it is up to the writer. Neither is incorrect as such, more a personal preference (certainly in modern times). If I am wrong I will accept the fact.

    Gertie - you seem to be the intolerant one IMO. I love freedom to worship whatever you want, but not in school (a state school at that). What you seem to agree with is brainwashing children into only knowing one view or only knowing one view as the 'right' view.
  19. Gosh this has become heated - that's religion for you.

    Head being uber nice - mmmmm wonder if she realises she has maybe been OTT on " demanding " what I should do.
  20. dagnabit

    dagnabit New commenter

    Why yes I do. I am a Christian. Christmas has *** all to do with trees, and actually very little to do with December. Thats a pagan hang over. But we have to celebrate His birthday sometime.
    It was supposed to be. You have been having digs about faith for the whole thread and most of your comments have been dripping with ignorance, so I thought I'd join in.I could have said that most non-faith school teachers don't bother teaching RE at all. Another wild over generalisation, but hey sauce for the goose and all that.
    Religion always gets a good argument running. We will have to agree to disagree.


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