1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hi Guest, welcome to the TES Community!

    Connect with like-minded education professionals and have your say on the issues that matter to you.

    Don't forget to look at the how to guide.

    Dismiss Notice

What would you think ?

Discussion in 'Primary' started by ff392, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. WolfPaul

    WolfPaul Occasional commenter

    Yes, but this thread is about teachers rather than children. No teacher is forced to work in a particular school.
  2. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    The OP has said that they weren't informed at the interview that they would be forced to do this.
    The debate about whether schools should be able to do this is still relevant.
  3. sarahmilly

    sarahmilly New commenter

    Absolutely, WolfPaul.
    There is obviously a place for Catholic schools, otherwise they wouldn't, in most cases, be so popular. Catholic schools do not expect their pupils to be catholic.
    If a teacher is not comfortable teaching in a Catholic school, then they should not have applied for the job in the first place.
  4. WolfPaul

    WolfPaul Occasional commenter

    Surely it's the responsibility of the applicant to a Catholic school to familiarise themselves with standard RC practices. Did the OP expect a list to be given to him at interview?
    The imposition of ashes on Ash Wednesday is mainstream, and not even unique to the RC church - many Anglican parishes practice this too.
  5. I am a bible believing Christian (one of those born-agains)... And I absolutely support your decision. Children need to know that people have different beliefs. They need to know that some people believe in God and some people don't. Your school should not employ you if they are not comfortable with showing such differences.
  6. I imagine that if you talked to the parish priest about your concerns he would take the time to explain the significance of Ash Wednesday and other 'heavy events' (!).
    These services aren't designed to be 'exclusive' and most priests would be happy to include all.
    If it didn't 'feel right' because you're not Catholic and you didn't feel like you should, then it might be worth taking the time to find out more about upcoming services beforehand to see what role you could and should take. I honestly don't feel like you should be forced to take part but for the sake of the children you are a role model to, try to develop a more positive approach to their faith.
  7. Again, I fail to see how respectfully not participating in a ritual that you don't believe in is presenting a negative approach to their faith.
    From where I'm standing, forcing the participation of a non-believer makes a mockery of everything that schooling is supposed to represent.
  8. I wasn't suggesting that not receiving ashes was a negative approach to faith. I was suggesting that the OP's response was beginning to sound negative, an attitude which may well find it's way to the classroom.
    I know from experience that it's hard to stay positive about something you are 'told' to do but was hoping to help by giving positive advice.
    You seem to be suggesting that I advocate holding the OP down and sprinkling with holy water til their head rotates?
  9. Perhaps that wes what you were aiming for, but it came across as more patronising than helpful.
  10. I'll have the children say 10 Hail Marys for me in the morning...obviously not forcing anyone to take part![​IMG]
  11. I'd say 7 Our Fathers was more appropriate ^^
  12. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    Yet again you have missed the point. The OP has said they take part in many ceremonies and know all about them (the ashes weren't a shock to them). They have no problem with any of them taking place either. All they want is not to be forced (and the children forced) to take part in every little thing though. They shouldn't have to be forced to do these things, Catholic or not.
    I didn't know the Catholic faith made people worship the way they want them to. The school has, at no time, questioned the OP about their faith. You don't have to be a Catholic to work in a Catholic school and the schools have no right to force beliefs on anyone.
  13. WolfPaul

    WolfPaul Occasional commenter

    Actually in the OP the poster described the Ashes ceremony as being an example of "more heavy events" introduced by a new HT - doesn't sound as though s/he expected them at all.
    Post 1 doesn't refer to children at all, and I can't see any suggestion in any of the OP's subsequent post that suggest this at all. In fact, it's quite clear that s/he is talking about his own position.
    As for being "forced", well, as I have already pointed out, no-one "forced" the OP to teach at a Catholic school.
  14. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    It was mentioned by the OP that the children didn't have a choice (I think post 9 or 10). That is a disgrace.

    It doesn't matter if the OP chose to work in a Catholic school or not. They should not be forced to take part if they don't wish to. In no way were they making light of the ceremony. In fact, by making a non-catholic take part it undermines the whole idea of faith.
  15. WolfPaul

    WolfPaul Occasional commenter

    That is your view; the OP only mentioned this in response.
    If they don't wish to have such contractural conditions, then it would be best not to sign the contract really...
  16. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter

    Hold on. First you say the OP didn't mention children and then when you were shown thst they did you say they are lying. Nice argument.

    I highly doubt that their contract actually says they must take part in whatever the school says. I imagine it would say something like 'uphold Catholic beliefs' etc. It also, still, doesn;t throw out the actual argument that they should or shouldn;t be forced to do these things. This is a state school. This does nothing to actally help the catholic faith. What type of message is it sending to the children?

  17. WolfPaul

    WolfPaul Occasional commenter

    I didn't say that the OP didn't mention children. I said:
    a) they didn't mention children in post 1
    b) they haven't argued that the children should have been given a choice. The OP's point was always about him/herself. It's you, Milgod, that have extended it to include the chidlren.
    Nobody is "forcing" the OP to take part. He agreed to do so when signing the contract.
  18. When I posted this, it was about how I felt and how I felt certain people were feeling I should take part , and not have a choice or a say.
    Children were not asked if they wanted to take part - assumed they would.
    The contract states "to uphold " - but not sure who's interpretation of this , clearly not mine !
  19. greenpaddy

    greenpaddy New commenter

    My son is in a Catholic school (that he attends - not because of where he lives but of where he attends our Parish church). He is 4 and in his school all parents are informed of school masses and other religious celebrations. The school explains to the children about the event and as parents we are also asked to talk to our children. Like his two teenage brothers previously, he participates in these religious events and will grow in his understanding of why as a church we have these celebrations. He also attends mass each weekend with us to develop his faith and understanding. As a practising Catholic - I get a nasty taste in my mouth when I read what non catholics say about teaching in a Catholic school and what they have to do. As earlier posters have said - you do not have to - find a job somewhere else and as another poster said if non catholics teaching in catholic schools gave some time and undertook the Catholic certificate in Religious Studies, it may inform them a little more.

Share This Page