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What would you do?

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by DrJay, Jun 20, 2019.

  1. DrJay

    DrJay Occasional commenter

    I posted recently about being a dilemma (https://community.tes.com/threads/career-dilemma-experienced-colleagues-please-advise.791327/). I successfully interviewed and was offered the HOD job. Currently, on MPS5 and successfully negotiated and was offered UPS1 + 4530 TLR. It's my 4th year of teaching with 100% pass rate year or year. I hold a double first in my subject; MA with distinction, and a PhD (This is just to provide a context and background! Please don't read any pride into it; it isn't intended at all.) However, because I'm currently in a great school (rated outstanding by Ofsted, excellent results, fantastic data, great colleagues and SLTs, extremely oversubscribed, affluent demography, etc., but where I feel overworked and underpaid) and due to this moving to a school (which was in difficulty, poor socio-economic demography, poor data, great SLT, reportedly a previously tough school, but which under new HT and SLT have greatly improved, etc.) I'm in a dilemma about what to do (i.e. accept or decline offer). My current school (where we move up the scale every year) have, in response to this development, offered to increase my current TLR from 2k p/a to 4k p/a but said nothing about scale (I'm assuming they'll simply move me to MPS6. However, whether or not, I'll automatically cross the threshold from MPS to UPS thereafter, I don't know. If you're in my position, what would you do. I need to decide urgently. Thanks everyone.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2019
  2. digoryvenn

    digoryvenn Lead commenter

    Lucky you to have such a dilemma.

    A MA and a PhD, some people have all the luck.

    Only you can decide.
  3. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    I assume that they're not honorary, though.....

    (It's mainly hard work.....)
  4. digoryvenn

    digoryvenn Lead commenter

    Some people would like to do the hard work but are being denied the opportunity.

    As I said, some people have all the luck.
  5. Bedlam3

    Bedlam3 Lead commenter

    You say you are over worked and underpaid, this would address the underpaid issue then there's just the overworked to deal with. Can you take your current schools offer and then try to get your workload in check? Can yoi drop somethings which are not a priority? Or is it likely that they will want even more from you in exchange for the increased salary?
    jlishman2158 and SundaeTrifle like this.
  6. DrJay

    DrJay Occasional commenter

    @ digoryvenn, please don't derail this thread. I'm hoping to get some thoughtful comments here to help me reach a conclusion.

    @ Bedlam3. Not in comparison with the pay on offer in the new school. After discussions, I won't be able to shed workload -- which is crushing me mentally, physically and psychologically -- but won't be expected to do anymore than I'm currently doing. I suppose it's an acknowledgement of a looming loss if I move.
  7. roydenkeith

    roydenkeith New commenter

    I don’t want to be too negative but you are a novice in teaching terms.Atbest you can have only takenA couple of classes through a key stage and your first will have been a massive learning experience. How about perfecting your teaching before assuming you are Gods Gift
    SweetDee42, Idiomas11, EmmyCD and 2 others like this.
  8. Bedlam3

    Bedlam3 Lead commenter

    PGCE_tutor and Lalad like this.
  9. Bedlam3

    Bedlam3 Lead commenter

    Hmm, thy didn't come out quite right but you get the gist.
  10. Lalad

    Lalad Star commenter

    There is no dilemma - you need to leave.
  11. DrJay

    DrJay Occasional commenter

    @ roydenkeith. Thanks for the old rhetoric which takes the form of argumentum ad hominem. Assuming, I am God's gift? Well, there must be something in what I do consistently which puts me in the scenario described. If it helps, I taught undergraduates for five years in my graduate school days and prior to going for my teacher training.

    @ Lalad. I take your point. Allowing work to crush me mentally would be a disservice. The dilemma then is not knowing what the new school might pile upon me (in terms of workload) beyond what I'm currently signing up to. I'm referring to "other duties as the headteacher may reasonably direct" which you often find in job descriptions.

    Thanks to other contributors. I have to decide at some point today but still puzzled, really.
  12. HolyMahogany

    HolyMahogany Occasional commenter

    If workload is the main issue at your current school and you consider this to be unsustainable and unavoidable then you need to move on. Problem is that there is no guarantee that this will improve at your new school. A visit and an interview will only give you a very limited insight into how the school runs. If there have been issues at the new school in the past, e.g. behavior, while these issues may be under control now, they will not have gone away.
    Workload is a major issue which is pushing a lot of teachers out of the profession and this is happening right across education.
    What to do? having worked in schools where behavior has been a major concern I would consider this to be the main factor for myself, only you can decide what is the deciding factor for you.
  13. lilachardy

    lilachardy Star commenter

    ^^^ that.

    Do you think the workload at the other school will be less?
  14. Dorsetdreams

    Dorsetdreams Occasional commenter

    I said this on your other thread: I think you may be making a mistake in assuming the workload at the new school will be lighter. Reading your qualifications only makes this concern stronger. I can't over-state this: you might find that working in a less academic school is very much harder than you imagine. Your qualifications and experience my be of no value at all.

    My own experience: 9 hour days in a tough school, when I was young and fit, nearly killed me. I can't imagine now why I kept at it for 15 years. Here, in a 'nice' school, with bright and hardworking students, I can do 12 hour days and still go home feeling good.
  15. Crowbob

    Crowbob Senior commenter

    The old school didn't see fit to pay you appropriately (in your view) until you were about to leave. You were undervalued. That won't fundamentally change now. It is more convenient for the school to keep you than look to recruit someone new as you are a known quantity.

    In my experience, it is hard to remain somewhere when you have used it as an opportunity to leverage better conditions. To management you will be 'that person' and they may question your committment and dedication. They may be thinking "they are looking elsewhere" and this may effect what they are willing to give to you in terms of further development and responsibility.

    I have been on the 'other side' where a keen interviewee has been persuaded to stay. I always wish them the best (and offer to write them a note with offered salary for them to take back to their other employer) but it is intensely frustrating. More than once that person has reapplied at a later date and I tried not to take it into account but it did put a question mark over them as a candidate.

    My advice is - you thought you needed to leave and had taken steps to make that happen. You should go through with it.
  16. Dorsetdreams

    Dorsetdreams Occasional commenter

    Clearly applying elsewhere hasn't damaged your standing at your current school: if it had, they wouldn't be offering you more money. In fact your actions have made them think rather more of you. But you can't play that card again soon; if you apply elsewhere again you will certainly need to see it through.

    If I understand Crowbob correctly, I certainly agree: you shouldn't go applying to school number 2 again!

    Please do let us know what you decide.
  17. krakowiak6

    krakowiak6 Occasional commenter

    I thought PhD people teach at university not at schools. You said yourself that you taught undergraduates for 5 years. Why don't you do that again if teaching is getting to you with work overload
    sabrinakat and ViolaClef like this.
  18. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Please tell me you aren't that naive. Plenty of teachers have PhDs. (Though I agree with @digoryvenn about opportunity, and with the OP about that fact being irrelevant to this thread.)

    I'm impressed that the school have given you so long to decide. Generally they ring and offer the post, expecting a decision immediately as you'll have done all your wondering before arriving for the interview. The candidate who is second choice will be left waiting while you keep weighing things up, which is unfair.

    Make a decision and go with it. Nothing is forever. If it turns out to be the wrong one, you can always move on again.
  19. ViolaClef

    ViolaClef Lead commenter

    @krakowiak6 has a point. There may be plenty of teachers with PhDs but I suspect most of them are not teaching in the kind of school DrJay is considering going to.
    A PhD suggests a passion for research and deep subject knowledge - something which sits very well, and probably better - with teaching in a university setting.
  20. FrankWolley

    FrankWolley Star commenter

    As the parent of a child with a PhD (in Science, currently working as a full time researcher), I can say it isn't easy to forge a career in universities these days... For example contracts are short term which makes it almost impossible to get a mortgage. I can see why some with a PhD might prefer to work in a schook, esp. a grammar or independent school. And Brexit has led to a drying up of new research grants. Our son is seriously considering taking his skills and knowledge abroad.
    Dorsetdreams, Curae, Shedman and 5 others like this.

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