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What time can we expect teachers to be at work ?

Discussion in 'Headteachers' started by whatamidoing13, Jul 6, 2013.

  1. Just got my first headship and have had a number of visits to the school to look at key priorities for next September.

    My head is absolutely buzzing with lots of positives and things to get my teeth into but one of the things that has concerned me most is how late many of the teachers arrive for work and leave very soon after the afternoon bell !

    Is there anything in the new STPCD or previous official guidance on start and end times of work ?


    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. marymoocow

    marymoocow Star commenter

    Just because they start late and leave early doesn't mean the work isn't been done! Personally I leave quite early because I don't have a decent laptop or space to work and because I have family issues. I take all of my work home. If the work isn't getting done then that is a different matter and you can use your directed time timetable to direct teachers when to arrive and leave, though this is only likely to be half an hour either side at most. There is too much micro management and mistrust of teachers by SMT in schools at the moment and is the biggest cause of poor relationships and low morale. If there are lots of positives about the school then I hardly see this as a priority. Personally if a head tried to dictate the times I came in, I would come in later as I currently come early and I would stop the goodwill stuff such as clubs, residentials and PTA events.
     
  3. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    If they start to leave before the children do, I would start to worry!
     
  4. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    The teachers are not arriving late, they aren't arriving as early as you think they should. There's a massive difference.

    Same here. And I'd be off to pastures greener.

    Right again. They seem to think they're running labour camps, some of them. Your teachers are your most important resource. So look after them.
     
  5. Scintillant

    Scintillant Star commenter

    You're running a school, right?

    Then best you have a look.

    Jeez.
     
  6. mickeyforpresident

    mickeyforpresident New commenter

    You know, there used to be a time when a colleague could post a question on here without being flamed... Where's the support?
     
  7. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter



    [​IMG]It probably left early.
     
  8. The key question is "Are they properly prepared for the start of the day?" I used to get very concerned when staff arrived close to 'in time' and were then at the photocopier or still setting up their IWB as the children were coming in (or worse, getting their coffee in the staffroom!).

    You can use directed time to address this if it is a problem. It will make no difference to those who are in and are ready.

    At the end of the day? If the children are all safely on their way, marking and prep is up to date (ie done at home) then there is nothing to keep staff in school if they choose to leave promptly.

    I would forget the 'make them stay longer' approach but closely monitor to ensure that they are present, ready and able to deliver high quality learning in a high quality learning environment for the whole school day.

    Good luck with that first headship. Pace yourself and choose your battles wisely. [​IMG]
     
  9. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    Congratulations on your new job, Whatamidoing! It's a great job, but you will find it hard at first.

    One of the very first things that you have to do is build up trust with the teachers. You have to trust them to be doing their jobs properly (and with the beady eye of a new Head around, they most probably all will!).

    So I shouldn't worry too much about the arrival and leaving times if children are properly supervised at the beginning and end of the day, and learning and pastoral care are effective in between. Save your energy and ammunition for something more important!

    Bah humbug has set it out very nicely. [​IMG] This is one battle you probably do not need to fight.

    On another track - have you been spending oodles of money on Amazon on books to help you lead and manage your first school? That should be your holiday reading, so get searching now. Here are some suggestions for you to look at:

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    Best wishes

    ___________________________________________________

    Meet Theo on line on the TES JobSeekers Forum, or in person at one of the TES Careers Advice Service seminars or individual consultations




     
  10. Ladykaza

    Ladykaza Senior commenter

    My teachers generally arrive between 8 and 8.30 and leave at a variety of times depending on circumstances.

    When my children were small I would sometimes dash in at 8.40 ish, and sometimes have to dash off real pronto but, as others have said, it doesn't mean the work wasn't done.

    I can speak from the other end of that first year. If you have the breathing space i.e. ofsted arn't looming etc. take ths year to see how things run. You will find you have real problems if you start a start a fight you really didn't need to have.

    I am going to change some things next year, but I'm really glad I got a good understanding f the school in this first year.
     
  11. Skeoch

    Skeoch Lead commenter

    Yes, agreed. Don't worry about arrival and departure times, worry about what the teachers are doing. If they are ready for their work as the children arrive, than they are arriving in time. If they leave when their need to supervise children is over, then they are leaving on time. If their lessons are prepared, marking and everything else is done well, then they are working enough hours.

    Measuring performance by arrival/departure is, in the old saying, making what is measurable important, rather than making what is important measurable.
     
  12. weirside

    weirside New commenter

    Hi,

    I too start my first headship in September, I know what its like when your brain just wont stop ticking!

    I wonder what times they are actually coming and going?

    We all work in different ways depending on family situation and the manner in which the school has previously been managed. Like may others on here I would agree that if the staff are doing all they can for the pupils in their care does it matter where the preparation is completed. You may find that it is situation that changes as a matter of course as it will depend on why it has occurred.

    Are there other areas that you could initially focus on?
     
  13. weirside

    weirside New commenter

    Hi,

    I too start my first headship in September, I know what its like when your brain just wont stop ticking!

    I wonder what times they are actually coming and going?

    We all work in different ways depending on family situation and the manner in which the school has previously been managed. Like may others on here I would agree that if the staff are doing all they can for the pupils in their care does it matter where the preparation is completed. You may find that it is situation that changes as a matter of course as it will depend on why it has occurred.

    Are there other areas that you could initially focus on?
     
  14. weirside

    weirside New commenter

    apologies for double post, I am clearly trigger happy!!!
     
  15. chriszwinter1

    chriszwinter1 New commenter

    I just loved this opening sentence. Just? A number of visits? I bet the staff really appreciate a visitor, i.e. a guest, and not one they necessarily invited, coming in and passing judgement on their work. Leave that to Ofsted.

    How about getting to know them instead of jumping to conclusions?

    I'm with Scintillant on this one. There's one guaranteed way to find out.
     
  16. Find tone and content of this unnerving. Don't overestimate the signifcance of headship, A little humility will go a long way.
     
  17. 'My teachers'???? You do not own them!

    Well, can't get the staff these days. They probably want to be paid too. Bloody cheek.

    I would make them clock in and out, so you can make sure you are getting your money's worth. When they have done the 1265 hours (about April) then you can close the school and go off an a grand tour of Italy with the rest of the cash. Just like back in the good old 18thC

    Seriously, an extremely worrying forum. Who is running our schools?
     
  18. fab208

    fab208 New commenter

    Whilst I do agree with other posters that you might want to actually get in to the role first, I think you have every right to be mindful of how staff are fulfilling their role. You will be responsible for them in terms of their wellbeing and their performance as of September and both are important.

    If a member of staff rocks up as the bell is going, dishevelled and not knowing what is happening, then yes - be worried. If someone goes home on the dot and their books are unmarked, classroom is a mess, planning isn't done and children are making no progress, then you should be asking questions. Equally, if someone is still there at 7pm, works at home until midnight and doesn't seem to be able to manage their workload, then be concerned. If a member of staff leaves at 4ish every night because of their childcare arrangements or because they might (wait for it....) have a life, but they are fulfilling their role really efficiently then be happy.

    It is not about the hours they are in the building but what they do with those hours. I ask my staff (sorry if that offends anyone, they think of me as 'their' headteacher and neither of us thinks we own each other) to be in school no later than 8.45am when the children are allowed into the classroom (most tchrs arrive between 8 and 8.15) and to stay until at least 3.45pm which gives everyone a chance to see one another at the end of the school day (most leave between about 5 and 6). We have one staff meeting per week which we try to have done in an hour and a quarter but often degenerates into a chat at the end. If anyone needs to go early/arrive late they ask and/or text if it's an emergency. That's out of courtesy and so we can be sure everyone is OK. One teacher at school is in at 7.15ish and goes by 4 (suits her and her family), one has to be kicked out by the caretaker as they prefer to do absolutely everything in school at the end of the day but they rarely take anything home. It is all a matter of the impact they are having when they are there.

    Take some time to get to know them and their needs and lives - then, if you really think there's an issue and it is affecting the school, discuss it openly.
     
  19. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    A very considered post, Fab208. Excellent advice, which I hope will be followed by the OP.
     
  20. Ladykaza

    Ladykaza Senior commenter

    Blooming heck BRENHELL.... My teachers as in... My colleagues , my friends, my nearest and dearest, not as in.... My shoes. they are mine because I care about them not because I think I own them.

    Whether you like it or not, as a Headteacher , they are my team. I am just as responsible for their welfare at work as I am for their performance management.

    Nothing in my post implied anything which should have provoked a reaction such as yours, quite the reverse, in fact most of the advice given to the OP would support your viewpoint, as do I .
     

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