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What M-point do you think I should be looking to start in?

Discussion in 'Pay and conditions' started by Gib007, Aug 3, 2011.

  1. Hello everyone, I'm a first time poster at TES. I'm starting a Secondary Science PGCE this September and no doubt in January/February, I will be looking for my first teaching job. I'm married (no children yet) and 25 years old (26 when I start working as a teacher) and a Physics-specialist with the following degrees: "MSci Physics with Astronomy (First Class with Honours) - University of Nottingham", "MSc Physics (Pass with Distinction) - Imperial College London" and "MPhil in Plasma Physics (Two-Year Research Degree) - Imperial College London". I was doing a PhD but felt I needed more from my career and after a Student Associates Scheme, I loved teaching so I swapped to an MPhil degree so I could start my PGCE this year. I am aware this question does not have a definite answer, as it of course depends on the area and the school in question. I will be looking to work in the Outer London area, with emphasis on the South West region. Any ideas what I should be looking for as a starting salary (in terms of M-point in the scale)?
    I don't want to start looking for work asking for too much or too little and would appreciate some guidance. Thank you!
     
  2. Hello everyone, I'm a first time poster at TES. I'm starting a Secondary Science PGCE this September and no doubt in January/February, I will be looking for my first teaching job. I'm married (no children yet) and 25 years old (26 when I start working as a teacher) and a Physics-specialist with the following degrees: "MSci Physics with Astronomy (First Class with Honours) - University of Nottingham", "MSc Physics (Pass with Distinction) - Imperial College London" and "MPhil in Plasma Physics (Two-Year Research Degree) - Imperial College London". I was doing a PhD but felt I needed more from my career and after a Student Associates Scheme, I loved teaching so I swapped to an MPhil degree so I could start my PGCE this year. I am aware this question does not have a definite answer, as it of course depends on the area and the school in question. I will be looking to work in the Outer London area, with emphasis on the South West region. Any ideas what I should be looking for as a starting salary (in terms of M-point in the scale)?
    I don't want to start looking for work asking for too much or too little and would appreciate some guidance. Thank you!
     
  3. emilystrange

    emilystrange Star commenter

    i imagine you'll be starting on M1, unless you can find a school/LA desperate for physics teachers. teaching salaries aren't anywhere near as negotiable as other careers' might be, regardless of how many degrees you have.
     
  4. henriette

    henriette New commenter

    M1 wherever you are............. unless you can convince a school that you are super-special, will need absolutely no support to get through NQT and that no-one else in the world can touch you..........or unless you are the only person prepared to work at a particular school
     
  5. M1!! Sorry, but with the odd very rare example, that is not negotiable in a teaching career. At no point during job applications/interviews will you be invited for your opinion on what point you would like to be on!
     
  6. Thanks for your replies. I only asked because a friend of mine started teaching Physics at a science-specialist school and was offered M2 to start. He keeps telling me to make sure I start at M2 or M3, if not, to just walk away. Don't know what to think then!
     
  7. CarrieV

    CarrieV Lead commenter

    Possibly the thing to do would be to wait until next January/February when vacancies begin to be posted and see how many jobs are advertised in the area/subjects/schools you are interested in. Then apply for those and see how many interviews you get. You will then have some idea of how "in demand" your services are likely to be. You can then guage whether you are prepared to turn a post down if offered M1 on the likelihood of receiving a better offer.
     
  8. I have known a physics teacher go straight on M6 as an NQT a few years ago!
    There is usually no negotiation in most schools I have worked in, PHDs and all go on M1; also it is 'an employer's market' nowadays.
     
  9. emilystrange

    emilystrange Star commenter

    your friend isn't being helpful. jobs aren't that plentiful, and with budget cuts, you'll be very lucky to be offered more. very.
     
  10. DM

    DM New commenter

    There is no harm in asking for M3 even though you do not have any relevant experience so far as I can tell. It doesn't help that you want to work in Outer London (plenty of competition). An Academy is more likely to be flexible about pay.
     
  11. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    Is your unhelpful friend an expert in teacher recruitment?
    Well, I am.
    The answer is: you'll be lucky to get any job. For the last 2 years, instead of the normal 80% of the NQT cohort getting a job, under a half have.
    That means that there is a whole cohort's worth of unemployed NQTs not yet got a job to begin induction, and out there swelling the numbers of applicants.
    At a time when schools are not replacing staff and making staff redundant.
    The competition to get a job is fierce. If you are offered a job at M1, my advice is to grab it with both hands.
    _____________________________________________________________
    TheoGriff. Member of the TES Careers Advice Service.
    I do Application and Interview one-to-ones, and also contribute to the Job Application Workshops. We look at application letters, executive summaries and interviews, with practical exercises that people really appreciate.
     
  12. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    Theo is quite correct.
    I'm not sure why you thought your being married was relevant - my advice is to stick to what makes you a good teacher, not what you think makes you want more money. if you're lucky, you might get an interview at a school like your friend (he of the rubbish advice about 'walking away'), where they've got piles of money to give away for nothing.
    But 'walk away' and you're simply making yourself unemployed.
     
  13. DM

    DM New commenter

    This may be true for many subjects Theo but the OP is a physicist and may still be able to attract a premium (probably not in London though). In my part of England (East Anglia), a medium sized TES advert for a Physics teacher in a Good or Outstanding School usually generates zero applications.
     
  14. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    Fair point - but . . . many schools have given up appointing physicists. So few pupils do the subject, they are tending to go for people who can flexibly teach several things.
    Grammar schools (where they still exist) and Indies do appoint Physics specialists, however, and are more likely to give an extra point.
    But to think as a general rule that you can just walk into a job, and with a point, is just not true, even for a physicist.
    But if the OP is lucky, perhaps I am wrong!
    _____________________________________________________________
    TheoGriff. Member of the TES Careers Advice Service.
    I do Application and Interview one-to-ones, and also contribute to the Job Application Workshops. We look at application letters, executive summaries and interviews, with practical exercises that people really appreciate.
     
  15. I'm a biologist with a chemistry enhancement under my wing and was able to negotiate M3 for my NQT post last year if it helps. I'd say try and negotiate - you can only be told no!
     
  16. Thank you all for your input!
    I will take it all into account. I sure hope I can manage more than M1, though. Even with the Outer London scale, M1 together with today's house prices (even outside of London) doesn't make me very hopeful.
     
  17. mm38

    mm38 New commenter

    As the others on this thread have mentioned you can may find getting promoted up the pay scale isn't as easy as it might have been a few years ago. The other thing that you do need to bear in mind is that if you get promoted up the pay scale it means you become more expensive very quickly. There are numerous teachers who find themselves either on the upper pay scale or M6 who find themselves losing out to cheaper colleagues if they are going for teaching posts without TLRs. There are some schools who will appoint the best candiidate regardless of their pay but there are some schools who will be put off by someone who is expensive. It may be a short term gain but in the long run it may not be quite as good as it looks!
     
  18. DaisysLot

    DaisysLot Senior commenter

    I think with your qualifications industry is the place to be if you want more from your career - you've got a good head on your shoulders that is unlikely to be fully appreciated in a secondary school or indeed reap any finanical rewards. Best of luck though, and do let us know how the application, interview and hopefully appointment process goes ;)
     
  19. Noted. To be fair, though, unfortunate as it is, I've seen well experienced teachers here on the TES forums who started on M1 but are after a good number of years on the upper pay scale or at least on M6, complaining about NQTs getting jobs because they are cheaper. In the end it seems that if you have to move school for any reason whatsoever, if you're on a high pay scale (no matter how long it took you to get there), you have some extra trouble getting a job. I honestly didn't think teaching was affected by such "cost cutting" tactics but hey, it seems unavoidable.
     
  20. Thank you! :)
    Industry is not something I've ever truly considered but I honestly want to make as much a difference as possible and reach out to pupils and encourage and inspire them to take on Physics beyond school. I find that much more rewarding than the idea of just making more money for some guy on top of me.
     

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