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What FSP Point scale is equivalent to a 1c and 1b?

Discussion in 'Assessment' started by cscarth, Apr 15, 2009.

  1. Hi Sharon,
    There is no nationally agreed way of doing this as yet. In fact I would be very suprised if your LA advisor didn't warn you off converting FSP scores into NC levels. It seems to be a classically thought way of DCSF thinking - they ask teachers to target set to the end of KS1 but they don't give any real guidance of how.
    I work for an assessment company called Classroom Monitor and we have been warned away from making those judgement by virtually every LA. In practive however, we know that many schools do make these judgements because they have too. In fact the range of differing ways of converting FSP scores to levels that I have seen in the last 3 years is pretty frightening! Whether, a few years down the line there will be enough data collected from FSP to start to make more accurate conversion is still up for debate as far as I can tell.
    Sorry I can't give anymore advice on this - I guess the bottom line is if you have to make those judgements do it carefully and be aware of your school and its individual situation (i.e. - sit down and look at all previous results from your school - what pupils got at FSP and what they eventually got at end of KS1 and then try to work backwards).
    I'm afraid prob not the answer you were looking for!
    Chris
     
  2. Hi Sharon
    I work as an Early Years profile moderator and there is no omparison to made between the fsp scale points and the national curriculum levels because they are a different curriculum. If you give a scale point 9 this means you thinka child is working towards level 1 this does not mean they are a 1C because they have not been working at that level

    Tracey
     
  3. fulloffun

    fulloffun New commenter

    Hi Sharon
    Well this is such a tricky area as mentioned by the previous posts.
    I teach r/yr1
    I follow the EYFS principles and do not want to equate the EYFS to the National curriculum levels BUT I have been wondering how to fill in the APP sheets for my year1 as they start at level one and quite frankly some of the statements have been achieved by my reception children .
    SO do the reception children start APP as year 1 and the year 1 teacher looks to be doing brilliantly as she highlights loads of level 1 stuff? or does the reception teacher highlight whatthe children achieve at the end of Reception and pass this on tot he yr1 teacher?

    Quite frankly i wish we were all doing the same thing its a nightmare.
     
  4. Hi

    In our school, we are told that an 8 equates to a 1c, so any children coming up to me in year 1 are predicted to be a 2c by the end of yr1 (i.e.the 3 sub leves per year) and any children that dont make this we are questioned why not.

    Although, ALL children that came up as a 8 on FSP were no where near a 1c NC level.

    This has left me and my yr1 colleague in a bit of a pickle!
     
  5. Surely you mean '2' sub levels per year? Are you expected to get 3?? That means that those children you mention who are 2c at the end of year 1 will be at level 5 in year 4?????
    Wow!!!!
     
  6. Leapyearbaby64

    Leapyearbaby64 New commenter

    Which 8s are you looking at? Our LA looks at all areas of literacy or maths, but always combined with PSE scores. So they are only predicted good scores in Y1 if they score highly in PSE.
     
  7. Oh how I love this topic!!
    You are constantly told by EYFS advisors that the FSP cannot be put into NC levels but as someone else has already pointed out, once you start highlighting what children can do in year 1 on the level 1 grids you start noticing that if they came to you at point 8 then it is similar to a 1C and 9 being a secure 1C. But we are not allowed to say that!
    It's even more exciting when you have a reception/Year 1 mixed class!
     
  8. NicoleK

    NicoleK New commenter

    Cherry- your HT is delusional and may well need some therapy!
     
  9. Lol Nicole! [​IMG]
    I have been thinking that myself!
     
  10. My head also expects 3 sub levels per year at KS1, and I have to say that it is challenging. BUT we can predict which children will do it by the end of reception! Is it the children who have the most potential? Not always, its those with the parents who will support them. I feel very sad that some of the children who could get 3 sub levels of progress dont despite the best efforts of myself and the classroom TA, but there are only so many hours in the school day.
     
  11. Such a good point about parental input!!
    I am so glad I found this discussion as I am having the same dilemma myself!! If it is not equivalent (FSP points and NC APP levels) . Then why does stupid Target tracker automatically convert it.
    My head is wondering why I am only willing to give them a 1C when TT converted them into a 1B.. but my argument is that there is lots in a NC level 1 that we didnt cover in foundation.. so i dont have the evidence that they can do it!!
    Evidence.. a whole other problem!!
    Anyone else had this issue with target tracker?

     
  12. NicoleK

    NicoleK New commenter


    We use TT but we just ignore the conversion. You can actually set it not to convert but I can't remember how.

    On the TT training they admit that it's controversial and that it's not based on anything secure. I don't accept the levels. I wait until my Year 1 teachers have had a chance to work with them on the National Curriculum and they input teacher assessments in about November, tentatively, then again in March and again in late June. This is the accurate info. Any head or dep who knows anything about KS1 and FS will have the good sense to understand that Essex Traget Tracker is the product of a company, a good product, but one that has been designed by people other than the DCSF, therefore we do not have to take their made up conversions as gospel. We are the professionals after all. We see the children every day. The programme does not. It is just making calculations.
     
  13. Hi

    This will make everyone smile - just had OFSOD and they said they are now expecting FS2 children to be moving upto YR1 as a 1B so they get to a 2C on entry to YR2 - it still stinks of SAT pressure and what happend to the bottom up ethos of a child centred 21 <font face="Calibri">Centaury curriculum moving into KS1 not the otherway round? </font>


     
  14. So happy I was not the only one who freaked out when saw that TT converted my new Y1 pupils to mostly 1B's - when they are less than secure 1C's in maths and literacy at this stage of the year!
    2 years on we are still struggling with TT. Have recently tried using the TT level descriptors in planning to make sure our T assessments are worthwhile when inputting data on TT - but how we will also incorporate APP is another story.....
     
  15. TT is only a tool and is only as useful as you want it to be. It will have 'converted' your Y1 pupils to mostly 1B only if they achieved all 9 scale points in the EYFS Profile. The Early Years Handbook says that Point 9 'will be attained by children who have significant abilities or experiences in an area of learning as they are consistently working beyond the early learning goals.' The examples indicate for example, '...a secure understanding of numbers up to 20.. ' is this likely to be true of children still working towards level1? Is it the conversion which is the problem?
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