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What did the EU ever do for you?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by eljefeb90, Apr 16, 2019.

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  1. eljefeb90

    eljefeb90 Senior commenter

    No, it is the USA that imposes the paperwork and the tariffs. The company I worked for was exporting to the US.
     
    monicabilongame likes this.
  2. dleaf12

    dleaf12 Lead commenter

    Oops! no I'm not muddled, just wrong!

    I had thought that CERN had followed a similar path to EurAtom and been subsumed into EU governance, but it hasn't. CERN exists separately to the EU and is not affected by Brexit. My bad.
     
  3. colpee

    colpee Star commenter

    Whether or not one calls such facts 'sarcastic' does not make them any less factual. The point is that it is a very weak argument to see as a root economic benefit, the return of monies that have been circulated through and paid for the bureaucracies of another government.

    That is a reasonable argument , albeit dependant on a political and personal belief that it is preferable to route money via the EU in the hope or belief that it will be better spent and prioritised than one's own government would. But of course, the argument only holds for those who so believe, and for those who may be as cynical about the EU's economic probity as others are about the UK's, then keeping more of that money at home to prioritise accordingly is very attractive. Proving anything one way or another is of course virtually impossible, so people are split, many quite passionately, as they always have been about Europe, hence the never ending slanging match and vilification of opposing views.

    IMHO, to believe that membership of the EU is a good thing, one would need to elsewhere.
     
    dleaf12 likes this.
  4. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Huh? Well yes, while the EU is unable to strike a FT deal with the USA, it (the EU) applies its tariffs and naturally, the USA does the same.

    You think the EU lets US sellers trade freely and without the same punishment?

    Indeed, the EU charges the USA 10% on cars while the USA lets EU cars in for 2.5%, for example.

    Or did until Trump went nuts about this and other examples.

    The whole point of a FT deal is to negate and hopefully end these tariffs and paperwork.
     
  5. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    Why wouldn't they use them?

    There's a lot of deserted roads in Spain, especially in low season away from tourist areas.
     
  6. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I think you are concluding something with little evidence. Eastern Europe was stable after the end of communism because the people largely wanted stability. Not because of the EU. Similar grandiose claims were made by Soviet propagandists (that their large multiethnic union secured peace after wwii). As I said, Ukraine and Yugoslavia would be two examples where the so-called stability you claim the EU has provided failed because of the actions of the EU. Seeing stability and crediting the EU over the efforts of the post-Soviet societies of those nations seems a stretch to me.
     
  7. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    The upgrading of the A256 Dover to Isle of Thanet, in the 1990s dualled and largely rebuilt to improve access for businesses investing in Thanet, had significant funding from the EU structural fund as part of the broader EU investment in regenerating the Isle of Thanet towns. I couldn't tell you how much, but I lived there at the time at the EU funding was widely publicised by the local authorities in the region, it was stated that the upgrading couldn't have happened without EU funding. This included the new (well, new at that time) Ramsgate Harbour access road they tunnelled through the cliffs.
     
  8. ilovesooty

    ilovesooty Star commenter

    Yes I'm aware of that, but remaining in the EU would prevent such protections being eroded by our own government in the future.
     
  9. dleaf12

    dleaf12 Lead commenter

    Yes I think so, its not about EU-funded projects in UK.

    Sovereignty - for me this is about being able to govern our internal affairs how we want and to get as much of our own way in external affairs as possible (given that there are other sovereign actors whose interests may well bump up against ours).
    Pooling some of our sovereign powers with the EU gives us more chance of exercising those powers in our (pooled) interest. The days when Britain stood as a world (super)power are long gone. We will get more of our own way as part of the EU28 than we would as just the UK on its own. We do not surrender anything meaningful in our ability to order matters as we wish internally, except where this relates to the Single market and Customs union.

    Economically - Being in the EU single market and customs union is better than being outside them. In Leaving, we will not replace the proportion of benefits lost with alternative trading relationships or markets for a long time, if ever. The EU is simply the closest and biggest market for us.

    Immigration - Free movement to and from Europe is a good thing for us and for incomers. It enriches our lives and improves our economic activity.

    Immigration from outside the EU could do like/lwise, and is already fully within our control regardless of Brexit, though we don't seem very good at exercising that control.

    So to answer the thread title... THESE are the things that membership of the EU does for me.
     
    mathsmutt, colpee and eljefeb90 like this.
  10. blazer

    blazer Star commenter

    They wouldn't pay the tolls, they preferred to stay on the toll free but congested old roads.

    There was an old episode of top gear where Clarkson was using one of these roads and when he got to the toll booth he claimed he didn't have to pay as the UK had already paid to build the road!
     
    jomaimai likes this.
  11. Mrsmumbles

    Mrsmumbles Star commenter

    The best quality and most amazing EU postgraduate tenants...Erasmus exchange students being especially impressive.
    Most of Cardiff was improved by EU funding, particularly Cardiff Bay. Shirley B would have been proud,
     
    monicabilongame likes this.
  12. Mrsmumbles

    Mrsmumbles Star commenter

    And lovely, lively, impressive and inspiring Polish cleaners, plumbers, chefs, delivery drivers, builders, tilers....the English will rue, rue, rue the day they stop coming. A lot of the migrant Polish workers were very bright and came over here because they took more menial work but the exchange rate meant they still earned ok. Cannot see that situation continuing for much longer!. My first cleaner came when I was too ill to do much and she was a lifesaver. She was a trainee town planner in her home town, the girl who came after she left, in good terms, had her own shop back home. Both really reliable and professional. They both became friends and I helped them with their English...not that they needed much help. Each now has moved on in life to bigger and better things. The idea was stay for a few years, then go back. This is why I find so much of the anti-immigration rhetoric unpleasant and pretty obviously racist. We need these great, good-natured diligent people.
     
  13. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    You're not playing the game properly.

    You say: "They have done <this>"
    Reply: "Pfft! I don't consider that of value, what else do you have? (my Googling ability has temporarily left me)"
    You say: "They have done, <this> and <this> and <that> too!"
    Reply: "Pfft! Nonsense, I mean in what way have they put money directly into my pocket or computer games in my living room?"

    That's the game the Brexiters want to play.
     
  14. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    According to my friends who live in Spain the toll roads have no significant connection to EU funding. They were built by private companies hoping to make a profit (rather like the M6 Toll in UK) but then found the traffic didn't materialise (also like the M6 Toll) so are now in danger of going bust (ditto). The Spanish government is buying some of them back and abolishing the tolls.

    https://www.thelocal.es/20140328/24-billion-bailout-for-spains-bankrupt-motorways

    That's not to say the private construction companies never screwed a cent out of the EU, I'm sure they did if they could, but they weren't EU projects.
     
    monicabilongame likes this.
  15. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    I'm not concluding anything - my first post on this topic began 'I do wonder' - pure speculation.

    I never claimed the EU had provided anything - but the very presence as a bloc of countries all (largely) united may well have helped Eastern Europe, on the whole, to maintain stability. The 'prize' of joining the EU in the near future may have also helped.

    We'll never know, of course, but it is the case that the transition of power was relatively calm & trouble-free, compared with many other such situations.
     
    eljefeb90 likes this.
  16. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    :p
     
  17. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Lead commenter

    To say we should remain in the EU, so that Parliament cedes control to the EU, serves to confirm what the ERG and Brexiteers argue every week.
     
  18. xmal

    xmal Occasional commenter

    Pure fantasy. Switzerland and Norway are not in the EU. Are they at risk of going to war with each other because of that? Tell me, which EU nations are you talking about?
     
  19. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    Tell me, wasn't most of Europe embroiled in 2 World Wars in 25 years in the last century?
    The EU project was partly a response to those awful days - to help prevent a repeat.
     
  20. LondonCanary

    LondonCanary Lead commenter

    It's a pretty week argument to suggest the EU stopped WW3. The UK leaving doesn't make a WW more likely.
     
    border_walker likes this.

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