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What Churchill means to us

Discussion in 'News' started by Corvuscorax, Jun 14, 2020.

  1. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    That Britain was in danger of falling doesn't match the historical facts. Churchill was indeed an excellent propagandist and that was a useful trait in a PM at the time. It shouldn't blind us to the less favourable aspects of his character and behaviour.
  2. sidaji

    sidaji New commenter

    I think some people clearly on a wind up here. There is no need to justify the greatest leader in history. He is a hero and never did any wrong. Facts.

    that quote above was not racist, even though it might not be 100% appropriate in 2020. Judge him on his era, that is a perfectly normal statement back then.

    so many most famous 90’s programs were homophobic (by today’s standards), do we delete all of them? No cos it was the norm back then. Before 2007 it was legal to smoke indoors pubs/clubs, so should we abuse all those people that did that back then just cos it’s not appropriate now?
  3. Rott Weiler

    Rott Weiler Star commenter Forum guide

    ??? It wasn't a reply to your (or anyone's) post. Just my opinion on the democratic difference between the two. A response to the thread title. Every opinion posted here isn't an argument with someone!
  4. install

    install Star commenter

    Couldn’t help overhearing.

    Isn’t that seeming a little hypocritical given your post possibly hinted that we should admire Stalin as much as Churchill?

    Indeed, there were many people of many races that fought in WW2 in support of Churchill’s fight against an oppressive state. And today we can all argue for even better equality thanks to Churchill leading that fight imho.
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
    Jonntyboy likes this.
  5. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    Saying one race is superior to another isn't racist? What definition of racist are you using?
    nervousned likes this.
  6. sidaji

    sidaji New commenter

    judge him on the standards from his era, not the standards to this era. What he said was perfectly normal back then.
    agathamorse and install like this.
  7. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    For upper class white people, sure. Facts, and right and wrong, don't change with the passage of time. People can be forgiven for being products of their time, class and culture but that doesn't make their beliefs or deeds ok. Who knew moral relativism had become so popular on the right?
    LunaBlue123 and nervousned like this.
  8. Spoofer4114

    Spoofer4114 Lead commenter

    You, and others, want to keep a murdering white supremacist on a pedestal and yet I am the one who has been brainwashed. Churchill has got 20 year tops before he is gone from our streets. People are not going to stop until all these characters are taken out of the sight of decent people.

    Go to a museum if you want to worship the wretch.
  9. sidaji

    sidaji New commenter

    so should we abuse everyone who smoked indoors in pubs before 2007 As doing the wrong thing just cos it’s not allowed now?

    what is normal changes with passage of time.
    agathamorse and install like this.
  10. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    Who said anything about abusing people? I thought it was impolite and reckless to smoke around other people long before the ban came in, but I didn't abuse people over it. I have politely asked people to stop when they were smoking somewhere it was banned and received abuse for it. The law isn't the arbiter of right and wrong. Things are morally ok just because they're legal, and sometimes the right thing to do is illegal.
  11. sidaji

    sidaji New commenter

    Don’t walk past the statue if you don’t want to worship the hero that is the best UK prime minister of all time.
  12. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    Personally I think Clement Attlee was a better PM.
    nervousned likes this.
  13. install

    install Star commenter

    Couldn’t help overhearing. Imho many people are not supremists or worshippers of Churchill. He was racist in my view and did have imperialist views. But he did lead the country in World War and won our very freedom.

    Isn’t it in part thanks to Churchill and all those that fought in WW2 that the British people have freedom and democracy now ?

    And isn’t it unfair of some critics who have never experienced war to pretend to know what it means to fight against an oppressive state?
    Oscillatingass and agathamorse like this.
  14. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    No, I want to keep a patriotic, brave, brilliant, resourceful, characterful and humanly flawed British statesman on a pedestal.

    That's because I have the open-mindedness and the reasoning ability, when I want to judge someone, to look at all that person's characteristics, both flaws and virtues. Only then do I make a decision.

    I consider it neither intelligent, justifiable or fair to look at everyone through the prism of "was/is he/she racist?" because the answer to that question alone, especially when the subject lived decades or centuries ago, is not enough on which to base a generalised character assessment without taking into account many other factors.

    But it seems to suit the simplistic weltanschauung of the far left. Unsurprisingly.
  15. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    Certainly a peace-time equal. In my view anyway. I have a lot of time for Attlee, but don't forget that he did have the advantage of some really talented colleagues in the Labour party of the time. I think he was a better manager/administrator than he was a philosopher.

    I certainly consider that his socialism was 100% genuine and came from his heart.
    Rott Weiler likes this.
  16. sidaji

    sidaji New commenter

    agathamorse and anniesue777 like this.
  17. install

    install Star commenter

    That is a very good point imho.
    agathamorse likes this.
  18. install

    install Star commenter

    I don’t think UK people will fall for the media’s trickery this time imho. Gandhi, Mandela and Churchill were all great men ( not perfect) and should have plaques explaining their lives next to them.

    Imho it is time to have great women honoured more in this form too.
  19. sidaji

    sidaji New commenter

    its a joke. Media want this,
    This comment/section has been removed/edited for breaching our House Rules and/or Terms and Conditions.

    people already falling for it, Churchill statues been ****** on and graffitied.
  20. BillyBobJoe

    BillyBobJoe Lead commenter

    What on earth are you on about?

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