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What are "shared Christian values"?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by MAGAorMIGA, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    And don't think ive forgotten or forgiven being made to stand on a chair in 1969 while the rest of the class prayed I'd be forgiven for heresy fr saying i thought it was a bit unfair that unbaptised babies wd be stuck in limbo forever.

    Edit. I can bear a grudge LOOOOONGtime.
     
    Jamvic and install like this.
  2. TheOracleAtDelphi

    TheOracleAtDelphi Established commenter

    Really? I'd heard it was to shock the baby into taking a breath (difficult to cry without breathing)...

    I don't mean this in any way judgementally but rejection of the trinity is relatively unusual in terms of Christian beliefs (and my understanding was that those who do reject it, tend to do so on different grounds i.e. greater separation rather than Jesus and God being the same 'person') - just out of interest, what do you think Jesus meant in verses like Matthew 16 v17 "Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood but by my Father in heaven." (my emphasis)? Or do you think such verses are a mistranslation/inaccurate in some way?
     
  3. Mainwaring

    Mainwaring Lead commenter

    Rejection of the doctrine of the Trinity is widespread in Christianity. Unitarianism began to spread in Europe during the sixteenth century and was well-established in Britain and North America by the late 18th. The huge worldwide Jehovah's Witnesses church bases its unitarian stance on the words of Jesus who invariably prayed to 'my Father in heaven'. (Many have difficulty with the idea of his praying to himself).

    Devotions at my Methodist youth fellowship years ago drew heavily on the writings of the Presbyterian William Barclay, so I was surprised, years later, to learn that he too was not only a unitarian but a 'convinced universalist' who believed that all would eventually be saved. The suggestion that hell is an Old Testament concept debunked in the New is simply wrong. Jesus invokes it on several occasions but Barclay believed that if hell existed it would be empty because the God of Love would not ultimately condemn any soul to perdition.
     
  4. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    When I was young church was an important part of our family life. The way I understood it, we are born to sin, not born in sin or as a result of sin. Today, I'm not religious and have long abandoned such doctrines.
     
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  5. install

    install Star commenter

    It seems there are some Christian values best leaving well alone. I am not religious either but recall being taught we are all born with 'Original sin' which leads to death itself. Death being the punishment for the 'Original sin'. I think it was a strange way of teaching the Biblical story / myth of Adam & Eve. Needless to say I realised quickly the Bible has much to answer for.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
    burajda likes this.
  6. TheOracleAtDelphi

    TheOracleAtDelphi Established commenter

    Yes well the influence of Augustine of Hippo has a lot to answer for.

    Mainwaring - true, also LDS. I was more meaning statistically (8 million-ish JW, 16million-ish LDS) rather than theological schools of thought.
     
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  7. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Other religious books have much to answer for too. Yet Allah is oft forgiving and merciful.
     
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  8. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    And yet the phrase 'Original Sin' isn't in the Bible.

    It does say "The Wages of sin are death" in Romans 6:23 but follows that up with "but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." which is the promise of Christianity.

    But that specific book was written by Paul for a specific audience at a specific time and any modern interpretation should be general, and certainly not taken literally.
     
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  9. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    Even as a child I couldn't get my head round God's having his only son horribly killed as the only way he could bring himself to forgive the actions of the original first two humans; and why he had to visit their disobedience on every single human descended from them. I'm better than that, and I do require a deity to be better than me.
     
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  10. install

    install Star commenter

    Exactly. There is much not in the Old Testament Bible because Christians appear in the New Testament along with a new way of seeing things. The word 'Christian' (or version of it) most likely does not appear until the New Testament for obvious reasons.

    And : 'shared Christian values' imho depend on a received interpretation/teaching of the Bible that many have been given in schools. Hence, the notion of 'Original sin'; 'purgatory'; 'the unforgivable sin'; 'Hell' and so on ...that all may or may not be in the Bible.

    Some supposedly 'shared Christian values' may just even be a form of lip service too. Take the Creed,the promise to 'obey' in marriage vows, the 'Our Father' prayer and so on..
     
  11. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    I am a Trinitarian, the Nicene Creed is not too bad for me, even though the Son of God phrase is in it. I take that with a pinch of salt, just as in the Bible the words are written to be read and accepted by the people of those times.
    But I like to think that a small few of us have progressed spiritually. To say three equals one is only nonsense when we are applying our worldly arithmetic, but if we consider that mathematics is the language of God then we are getting closer to His Word, Jesus, who is God. And the Holy Spirit is God dwelling within us. Tolstoy said "The Kingdom of God is Within You", his book title.
    To say that God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are three separate entities is nonsense, I think.
     
    Last edited: Jan 19, 2020
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  12. install

    install Star commenter

    Agree.

    I am not religious. And the simple act of 'kneeling down' to pray or 'begging for forgiveness' is far beyond me. As for the 'Virgin birth' it's over my head...
     
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  13. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    It's a phrase that makes as much sense as 'shared Muslim values' or 'shared Hindu values'... and it doesn't seem to have much to do with this story [the expelled girl] and is more to do with the personal feelings of the OP.
     
    Burndenpark, chelsea2, nomad and 2 others like this.
  14. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    @install Well... given the low status if women and the abhorrence of women having sex at all, I can see that a pure unsullied virgin would be the ideal vessel for the celestial spermatazoa. Why the waters then had to be muddied by providing her with an earthly husband is a bit more puzzling.

    The more bowing and scraping a religion has, the more I despise it. I also find "praise" difficult. I only hear the word and I'm getting "The Meaning Of Life" - Ooooh Lord, you're so big! Ooooh you're great!
     
    Burndenpark likes this.
  15. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    before that, there was the flood when even all the animals had to die too......except fish of course.
     
  16. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    Blessed be the fish!
     
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  17. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    What about amphibians who can live in water or reptiles like crocodiles. Could they have survived?
     
  18. MAGAorMIGA

    MAGAorMIGA Star commenter

    The phrase wasn't mine, but taken from the school's own mission statement: "Whitefield Academy is a Christian-based school with a 43-year history of educating students in a learning environment informed by our shared Christian values," My original post contrasted the school's own "mission statement" and its actions in permanently excluding a pupil for what appeared to be trivial misdemeanours (many of which weren't misdemeanours at all). The thread is not intended to be about me, but the way religious institutions don't put the ideas they espouse into practice, but instead display high levels of hypocrisy. This is true of a lot of American evangelical religion, which is more about the prosperity gospel than anything recognisably Christian.
     
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  19. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    I've worked in a Christian school... it had "shared Christian values" in the mission statement... it still expelled pupils.

    The focus of this thread is entirely about you.
     
    nomad likes this.
  20. NoseyMatronType

    NoseyMatronType Star commenter

    The only Biblical passage that explicitly references the Trinity is 1 John 5 verse 7:

    "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one."

    But apparently, it is not an authentic part of the original Biblical text.

    This discovery was made by Erasmus as he worked to produce an edition of the New Testament based not on the Church's derivative Latin translation but on the earliest available manuscripts of the book's original Greek.

    Islam is anti-Trinitarian e.g. see Surah 112 (presented here in Shawkat Toorawa's rather wonderful cadenced, rhyming translation):

    In the Name of God, Full of Compassion Ever Compassionate
    Affirm: He is God, Matchless
    God, Ceaseless,
    Unbegetting, Birthless,
    Without a single partner, Peerless.


    However, the notion of rūḥ approximates that of the Spirit.

    In my case, the contemplation of Trinitarian teaching makes me think of the end of the movie Blade Runner, in which a murderous artificial human or 'replicant' becomes Christ-like with the help of a dove and a nail driven through his hand, saving a character played by Harrison Ford from "the Fall" in an act of redemption.
     

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