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What are "shared Christian values"?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by MAGAorMIGA, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Peace, compassion, charity, reflection, unity.
    Shared with Christianity by most major religions and individual atheists.
  2. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    And these are all values, but all with obvious connections to morality. Perhaps we should ask are there any specific values solely the prerogative of Christians? The only one I can think of is not just belief in the supernatural and an after-life, but belief in a single and unique creator, with whom we can only have a spiritual relationship through Jesus, who is this Creator whom we call God. None of this Son of God nonsense for me, not in this day and age.
    install likes this.
  3. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    Last Sunday I heard some strident and jolly singing with simplistically strummed guitar accompaniment coming from our local church, and as I approached I saw Batman run out of the door with his hands over his ears, and leg it down the road.
    "That must be a Christian Bale", I thought.
    Jamvic likes this.
  4. Ivartheboneless

    Ivartheboneless Star commenter

    It seems that from archaeological digs even our Neanderthal ancestors had some form of moral values. I don't suppose they had a "nailed god" and a bible to refer to. These "discussions" AKA "prejudices" just go on and on, and on, and on .... I'd say that "morality" and moral values are inherent in most humans, and learned in childhood from adults. Some people do not have a moral compass and sit on the sociopath spectrum, being CEOs and/or Tory Ms!
    Mathsteach2 likes this.
  5. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    interesting post, thank you. You use the phrase "moral values", suggesting there are some values which are not moral. I think perhaps the value which I described in my last post may be one of those. I cannot see there being anything moral in believing in a supernatural deity. Morality is totally human trait, Christianity helps some (not most!) to be moral, and we certainly do not have to be a Christian to be moral.
    burajda likes this.
  6. jubilee

    jubilee Star commenter

    that rules out anyone who lived in the years before Jesus was born, and those who lived further away who never even got to hear about him. That hardly denotes a universal, inclusive regime.
  7. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    How about wiping out all the infidels? That's not a widely-held value anymore, except amongst certain groups. Gay-hating and extra-marital sex are perennial favourites but nowadays most religions are required to at least look like they don't want them all stoned or set fire to anymore.
    Ah, progress.
    coffeekid likes this.
  8. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    So without the Son of God or even the Trinity, you just have a relationship with God. Isnt such unity or uniqueness of the indivisible creator, belief in the supernatural and the afterlife simply Islam or Judaism?
  9. burajda

    burajda Star commenter

    Progress is because political social democracy has led to the replacement of the more punishing and revenging instruction of the OT God. So Leviticus can no longer be palatable to the public and the dwindling congregations but the loving and forgiving message of the NT can. Most churches have even abandoned mentioning Hell in case such talk of damnation and never ending fire upsets people, particularly children.
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  10. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Mathsteach2 likes this.
  11. Jamvic

    Jamvic Star commenter

    I think it’s probably more to do with the fact the Church no longer commands as much political power or enjoys links to powerful ruling kings/queens and their useful armies.

    The general clergy are no longer recruited from the aristocracy’s spare younger sons as it’s a toothless profession. They can’t exert the same level of social control & coercion in the daily lives of those in parish communities who were mainly trapped living in one village or town for generations and therefore had to be seen to conform to survive & thrive.

    Return the same levels of wealth, power & influence to the Church and then see if they’re still as accommodating to difference, dissent and change. History suggests not.
    MAGAorMIGA, jubilee and coffeekid like this.
  12. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    I had not seen this thread to be concerned about universal, inclusive regimes. I am wrong if that was the intention of it. My suggestion for a specific, unique Christian value does not necessarily make it universal.
    Also, when I say I do not refer to Jesus as the Son of God (I value Jesus as the Word, who is God, and will not accept any phrase which appears to diminish His deity), in no way does that mean I am no different to a Muslim or a Jew. The only way to God, and an after-life, is through Jesus.
  13. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    Which direction did he head in? West?

    (gag - Adam West played batman in the 60s TV show)
    sbkrobson and Jamvic like this.
  14. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    I thought that's what they did when the Mayflower sprung a leak!
  15. Jamvic

    Jamvic Star commenter

    Did it really need the exposition? :D
  16. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    I wondered that myself but the TV show finished in the late 60s and hasn't been shown much on the telly in recent years so anyone younger than 55 say would have been unlikely to have seen it. Also, by explaining the gag, those people who have no idea what I'm on about won't suspect I'm losing my marbles so the explanation serves two useful purposes.
    Jamvic likes this.
  17. install

    install Star commenter

    Just wondering about the Christian value of 'forgiveness' and the Christian notion of 'being born in sin' (I think) and if that is a unique. Not very good at forgiving myself. And as for being ' born in sin' it does not sound very fair to feel a sense of guilt just for being born.

    Last edited: Jan 18, 2020
  18. Mathsteach2

    Mathsteach2 Established commenter

    @install. Surely forgiveness must be a universal or should be, certainly not the sole prerogative of Christianity?
    Concerning being born in sin needs impossible explanation, the innocence of a child must be totally accepted. I was horrified when I first was told that being born in sin was what motivated the slapping of a new-born baby to make it cry. Christianity has a lot to answer for.
  19. install

    install Star commenter

    Thank you.

    You assume much about the quality of 'forgiveness' imho. Why should 'forgiveness' be a universal quality? Many justice systems in many countries demand a crime be punished - not forgiven.

    I agree that it is a crazy concept to 'be born in sin' - and it goes to show that some Christian values are hardly moral, right or worthy of admiration.
  20. Aquamarina1234

    Aquamarina1234 Star commenter

    Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them"

    But failed to actually state which bits were dumped and which (and how) were fulfilled. So are we back to the Jackie comic strip "If you really loved me you woukdnt need to ask" tripe?

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