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Well, what d'ya know! Pope Francis never said anything about civil partnerships!

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Wanda_the_Wonder, Oct 24, 2020.

  1. Wanda_the_Wonder

    Wanda_the_Wonder Established commenter

    colpee likes this.
  2. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    While I wouldn't trust those publications any more than I would trust a kiddy fiddling Catholic priest with a child, I can't be bothered to check. Because why are Catholics so obsessed with se x? And 'homosexual acts', which are never explained. They're like twelve year old boys sniggering at a picture of a woman's boobs. What is the matter with the Catholic hierarchy that they just can't grow up a bit?
     
    ajrowing and nomad like this.
  3. colpee

    colpee Star commenter

    Not so much dishonest, IMO, as ignorantly publishing the free marketing puff distributed by a film agency. Some phrase searching shows a similarity in reporting that has quite obviously been copied and pasted from the same source. It is common practice nowadays - lots of coverage doesn't mean anyone bothered to check.

    Web crawlers collect and 'content editors' retransmit anything that may get instantaneous clicks; decent journalists are rarely actually involved.
     
    nomad likes this.
  4. SeanbheanMac

    SeanbheanMac Occasional commenter

    I might be missing something here. I've just read both articles and neither claims he didn't say anything about civil unions. In fact, they both seem to confirm that he did, providing different interpretations of what he might have meant.

    Did you actually read them before creating the thread pet?
     
  5. Wanda_the_Wonder

    Wanda_the_Wonder Established commenter

    The media which reported this 'news' originally claimed that Pope Francis said the words about civil partnerships to the film maker. He did not.

    Read from the link I posted to the National Catholic Register:

    At the same time, a CNA analysis of the interview’s transcript shows that other papal comments on homosexuality featured in Francesco were compiled by heavy editing of the 2019 interview’s video footage.

    Francesco presents Pope Francis saying the following, in remarks about his approach to pastoral care:

    “Homosexuals have a right to be a part of the family. They’re children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out, or be made miserable because of it.”

    While the pope did say those words on camera, he did not say them in that order, or use those phrases in immediate proximity.

    CNA has bolded the appearance of those words in an excerpted translation of the pope’s remarks during his 2019 interview:

    “I was asked a question on a flight - after it made me mad, made me mad for how one news outlet transmitted it - about the familial integration of people with homosexual orientation, and I said, homosexual people have a right to be in the family, people with homosexual orientation have a right to be in the family and parents have the right to recognize that son as homosexual, that daughter as homosexual. Nobody should be thrown out of the family, or be made miserable because of it.”



    That is what he said two years ago. Nothing new, nothing controversial as to Church doctrine
     
  6. SeanbheanMac

    SeanbheanMac Occasional commenter

    My dear Wanda, please refer to the title of your thread, stating that 'Pope Francis never said anything about civil partnerships'. He did. He may not have said them directly to this particular filmmaker, but he did comment on them. Indeed the article to which you have referred for a second time states that 'The pope’s comments on civil unions, have not been disputed by the Vatican'.

    Are you sure you read the articles properly? I still can't find the part where it says that he didn't say anything about civil unions. I note that there is some argument over the meaning of his comments on gay people and family (be it the church family or their own families) and also see that there are claims of selective editing, but nothing to back your statement re civil unions. Would you mind showing me exactly where this has been addressed?
     
  7. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    I think he is a bit of a Free Presbyterian when it comes to sex and abortion; doesn't happen to good church-going girls.
     
  8. SeanbheanMac

    SeanbheanMac Occasional commenter

    I have a friend from a Free Pee family. She's lovely. I'm terrified of her brothers though.
     
  9. Wanda_the_Wonder

    Wanda_the_Wonder Established commenter

    Please anyone show me a genuine quote where Pope Francis says that he supports civil partnerships. You can't because he didn't.

    And even if he had it is not news - the Church does not oppose civil partnerships. It opposes most definitely gay marriage.
     
  10. SeanbheanMac

    SeanbheanMac Occasional commenter

    That's a strange reply. His words have been widely reported - as I previously mentioned even the Vatican have not disputed it. I took this information from the article you posted when you started the thread, in case you'd like to read it. Do you have information that the Vatican are not party to? If so, you should probably share it as I'm sure lots of people (the Vatican included) would be very interested in it.

    I'm not aware of anyone claiming that the Catholic Church supports gay marriage, at least not any claims that have been made on TES, and would therefore be relevant to your posts. Perhaps you could kindly share this too.

    Times are moving on, Wanda dear. Maybe you should as well.
     
  11. Wanda_the_Wonder

    Wanda_the_Wonder Established commenter

    His words have been widely reported wrongly - and quoted from something said about three years ago.
    His words were misrepresented, rearranged, omitted, and deliberately presented to say something the Pope did not say.

    There has been no change whatsoever in Church teaching on homosexuality.
     
  12. Wanda_the_Wonder

    Wanda_the_Wonder Established commenter

    These are the Pope original words sparking this furore. Does he mention civil partnerships?


    “I was asked a question on a flight - after it made me mad, made me mad for how one news outlet transmitted it - about the familial integration of people with homosexual orientation, and I said, homosexual people have a right to be in the family, people with homosexual orientation have a right to be in the family and parents have the right to recognize that son as homosexual, that daughter as homosexual. Nobody should be thrown out of the family, or be made miserable because of it.”
     
  13. SeanbheanMac

    SeanbheanMac Occasional commenter

    Aw Wanda you really haven't read the articles! Here's a bit from the National Catholic Register you posted a link to - I read it so you don't have to take the trouble. I've put the relevant parts in bold to make it easier for you to spot. You're welcome!

    'VATICAN CITY — Francesco, a newly-released documentary on Pope Francis, contains comments from the pope on homosexuality and civil unions. Some of the remarks, however, are the result of editing distinct phrases from a papal interview and presenting them as a cohesive whole.

    While filmmaker Evgeny Afineevsky told CNA and other journalists that Pope Francis made comments calling for the passage of civil union laws directly to him, the comments actually appear to come from a 2019 interview of Pope Francis conducted by Mexican journalist Valentina Alazraki.

    The pope’s comments on civil unions, have not been disputed by the Vatican despite multiple requests for clarity. The remarks were not contained in the published version of Alazraki’s interview, and have not been seen by the public except in Francesco.

    On Wednesday, however, Fr. Antonio Spadaro, director of the influential journal La Civiltà Cattolica, told journalists that the pope’s remarks on civil unions are excerpted from the 2019 interview, and did not dispute the way in which they were presented in the documentary.

    At the same time, a CNA analysis of the interview’s transcript shows that other papal comments on homosexuality featured in Francesco were compiled by heavy editing of the 2019 interview’s video footage.'

    From the above, it's quite clear that the Pope did make comments about civil unions, although he did so during an interview which was not part of the Francisco documentary. I'll ask again (although I know the answer) - are you able to show any evidence of the Pope or the Vatican denying that he spoke in favour of civil unions for gay couples?
    The pope’s comments on civil unions, have not been disputed by the Vatican despite multiple requests for clarity. The remarks were not contained in the published version of Alazraki’s interview, and have not been seen by the public except in Francesco.

    On Wednesday, however, Fr. Antonio Spadaro, director of the influential journal La Civiltà Cattolica, told journalists that the pope’s remarks on civil unions are excerpted from the 2019 interview, and did not dispute the way in which they were presented in the documentary.
     
    SiriuslyRiddikulus likes this.
  14. SeanbheanMac

    SeanbheanMac Occasional commenter

    You're funny! You said his words were misrepresented and omitted, then you post this! I've put his undisputed comments on civil unions here, in case somehow you hadn't been able to locate them

    “Homosexual people have the right to be in a family. They are children of God and have a right to a family. Nobody should be thrown out or be made miserable over it. What we have to have is a civil union law—that way they are legally covered. I supported that.”

    By the way, well done on stating that the Church's teaching hasn't changed. It's good you got a little part of the story correct. There may be some hope for you yet!
     
  15. SeanbheanMac

    SeanbheanMac Occasional commenter

    upload_2020-10-25_9-52-7.png

    Look! There's even a meme! This might make it easier for you to understand
     
    SiriuslyRiddikulus likes this.
  16. Wanda_the_Wonder

    Wanda_the_Wonder Established commenter

     
  17. Wanda_the_Wonder

    Wanda_the_Wonder Established commenter

    Once again these are the words by Pope Francis from some years ago which sparked this current furore.
    Does he mention civil partnerships?

    “I was asked a question on a flight - after it made me mad, made me mad for how one news outlet transmitted it - about the familial integration of people with homosexual orientation, and I said, homosexual people have a right to be in the family, people with homosexual orientation have a right to be in the family and parents have the right to recognize that son as homosexual, that daughter as homosexual. Nobody should be thrown out of the family, or be made miserable because of it.”


    We already knew that Pope Francis favours - as do the vast majority of Catholic - civil unions. So where's the story?

    The media have presented this as something new and a change in Catholic doctrine. It is not.
     
  18. Wanda_the_Wonder

    Wanda_the_Wonder Established commenter

    This morning a Catholic canon lawyer spoke on the 'Sunday' programme on Radio 4. He got it spot on. There was no news story and nothing whatsoever had changed in Church doctrine. He also found despicable the media manipulation and misrepresenting of Pope Francis' words.

    And on dishonesty in the media he described how he picked up a copy of METRO and the headline was POPE OKAYS GAY MARRIAGE.
     
  19. SeanbheanMac

    SeanbheanMac Occasional commenter

    I refer you back to the title of your own thread and your opening post. You claimed then that he never said anything about civil partnerships. You also state that the media have been negligent and dishonest in their reporting.

    You keep referring to a particular comment where he doesn't mention civil unions. Here's another quote:

    'All are called to love and cherish family life, for families are not a problem; they are first and foremost an opportunity.'

    This one doesn't talk about civil unions either, nor does it prove that he never said anything about them. There's loads of examples of times when he didn't specifically mention civil unions, but that doesn't even begin to prove your point.

    You know he has made comments about his support for civil unions. You also know that the Vatican does not dispute this. You say in your most recent post that we already knew that he favours civil unions. How would you know this unless he had at some point said that he does? Telepathy?

    Bearing all of this in mind, for you to claim that he never said anything could be considered negligent or dishonest.
     
    SiriuslyRiddikulus likes this.
  20. Wanda_the_Wonder

    Wanda_the_Wonder Established commenter

    Just where do you find civil partnerships mentioned in Pope Francis' original words - the words below that sparked this furore?

    I was asked a question on a flight - after it made me mad, made me mad for how one news outlet transmitted it - about the familial integration of people with homosexual orientation, and I said, homosexual people have a right to be in the family, people with homosexual orientation have a right to be in the family and parents have the right to recognize that son as homosexual, that daughter as homosexual. Nobody should be thrown out of the family, or be made miserable because of it.”
     

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