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We have a problem with racist police in the UK too

Discussion in 'Personal' started by Morninglover, Jun 18, 2020.

  1. circuskevin

    circuskevin Established commenter

    Apologies for the outburst folks! @florian gassmann comes across as a little too 'perfect' at times ... :)
  2. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    Again no, the officers could have dealt with the situation with the nurse in situ, they chose not to.

    There were no darken windows only a standard tint, so why is a standard car suspicious?

    The fact that they wanted to search the car. Why? They had no justification whatsoever. None. When challenged, they immediately abandoned the tint excuse and produced a "stolen goods" excuse out of nowhere. (stolen goods is one of the justifications for searching a car) What was the basis for the reasonable suspicion for stolen goods? None of what the officers said or did adds up.

    And when this lying officer finds some "incriminating evidence" as a result of this unlawful search will you still "have respect for the law"?
  3. DrLinus

    DrLinus Lead commenter

    Difficult to believe, following the appalling death of George Floyd, that this innocuous stop is being cited as evidence of police wrongdoing.
    lexus300 likes this.
  4. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    She was under no obligation to either wind down the window or get out of the car. You show your own prejudices when you suggest that 'the immediate suspicion.... is inevitably that she may have something to hide'.
  5. lexus300

    lexus300 Star commenter

    Judge and jury have spoken:rolleyes:
    alex_teccy likes this.
  6. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Star commenter

    I can't say I cared for your comment about me in the now locked thread which was incorrect.
  7. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    It's not really possible to have a conversation with someone in a car who won't even wind the windwos down. She was asked 23 times to leave the vehicle, but refused to co-operate.South West Basic Command Unit Professional Standards team has received a number of complaints relating to this incident, one is still currently under assessment. A complaint regarding discriminatory behaviour, incivility, neglect of duty and use of force found no case to answer for. The complainant appealed this decision via the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) and they decided the appeal was not upheld.”

    It was at dead of night and the police said they thought the tint was beyond the legal limit. They were wrong, but it is not unreasonable to investigate.

    By then, she was behaving in such a manner that they suspected she had something to hide.

    I don't suffer from paranoid feelings that the police are out to get me, that doctors are out to kill me, that motorists are out to run me over. I am sorry if this poor woman has such feelings, but she should not be surprised that the police reacted in the way they did in response to her behaviour. Had she simply got out of the car, as requested, none of this would have happened. Instead, she escalated the matter into a full-blown confrontation with the law. Not clever, in my opinion.

    You will of course be aware that the police Professional Standards team investigated a complaint about this case and found no case to answer. The complainant appealed this decision via the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) and they decided the appeal was not upheld.
  8. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    No, but any right-minded individual with nothing to hide is likely to do what the police request (23 times, in fact).

    No, that is not prejudice. Anyone of whatever colour or rase who refuses to get out of their car when asked by the police is of course going to be suspected of having something to hide. Nothing to do with race - all to do with acting suspiciously.
  9. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter

    Another case:

    Black bank manager wrongly arrested to sue Met for ‘racial profiling’
    Dale Semper says his life was turned upside down by two-year investigation that was dropped


    "As a black man with an expensive car, he says he was used to being stopped by police.

    But in August 2017, he was pulled over by Metropolitan police officers and his life was torn apart – with devastating impact on his job, finances and mental health.

    Semper’s lawyer has likened his client’s experience to the 1998 action film Enemy of the State, in which the lead character played by Will Smith has his life turned upside down by authorities without explanation or cause.

    Semper and his partner, Denise Huggan, believe the 26-month investigation that ensued – ending in no charges and no action taken – was driven by racial profiling.

    Semper, 38, and his legal team say the police could not accept a black man would have money without illegal activity behind it and are preparing to sue the force.

    Semper was driving Huggan to the train station in her Mini Paceman on 23 August 2017 when they were pulled over by police. “They rushed up to the car, banging on the window, shouting “get out, get out of the car. They handcuffed me. They said they were arresting me – I said ‘for what? You got the wrong guy’,” Semper recalls.

    He was escorted back to his home in Enfield, north London, joined by 15 to 20 police officers. When the officers entered his home, the alarm went off. Semper was standing outside, cuffed, as neighbours poured into the street.

    “It was so embarrassing,” he recalls.

    Finally, he discovered what the police were searching for: firearms. “I said: ‘Firearms? what are you talking about? I’m a bank manager, what would I be doing with firearms?” You’ve got the wrong guy.’”

    No firearms were found. During the search the officers found £1,935 in cash in Semper’s safe – all of which he immediately accounted for as funds for renovating his home.

    After Huggan left the property, officers shifted tack, announcing Semper was now being investigated for money laundering.

    This, he says, is also when comments from officers started: how does someone like you afford these two cars? How can someone like you live here and be so successful? How can someone like you afford that watch, that car, this home?

    It was clear to Semper that by “someone” the officers meant a black person.

    Semper was hauled into a police station for interview, where he was able to account for every penny he had earned or spent – from his £72,000 annual salary to his rental income and receipts and invoices for purchases.

    He was released from custody – but the nightmare continued. His bank accounts were frozen and he was suspended from work. He discovered officers had searched his partner’s home as well as his 55-year-old mother’s home.

    “I had to ask my family and friends for money, to pay my bills. I had to rely on Denise’s salary, her credit cards, my mother, my aunts. Everything came from them.

    “That killed me. I was always the one who provided for all of them. I felt like it stripped me of my identity.”

    Semper appointed a solicitor, Adam Rasul, to deal with the freeze on his bank accounts. Rasul, a senior partner and pre-charge solicitor at Holborn Adams, represents Semper to this day, and says it is the worst case of malicious prosecution and negligence he has come across.

    “That warrant was based on false intelligence,” Rasul said. “At that time, there was nothing, and to this date, no evidence has been provided.”

    Following Rasul’s representations, Semper’s accounts were unfrozen in November. But the investigation remained open and he was unable to return to work for 18 months – and when he did it was to a downgraded role, in which he remains today.

    Rasul says that throughout 2018 they were building “files longer than the Chronicles of Narnia to explain this case needs to be dropped”.

    The effect on Semper’s mental health was devastating. He lost two stone within the first two months and developed post-traumatic stress disorder".

    “I’ve had counselling,” he said. “I’m trying to get my head in shape, keeping me sane. We wanted to have children. But because of this whole thing, the strain it’s caused on our relationship, I’m just not feeling it. I just don’t want to do anything.”

    Huggan, 39, who works in HR, said: “It’s been hard, it’s been dark, it’s been depressing.”

    On 19 February 2019, different officers attended Semper’s home and arrested him on the front door for another allegation under the Firearms Act. But on the same day, they de-arrested him.

    It was not until October last year that he was finally told the police had ended the investigation and there was no further action to be taken. They did it over the phone to Rasul with no apology and still no explanation".

    Pretty clear racism, to me...
    ACOYEAR8 likes this.
  10. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    It is not shocking at all, unless you are some kind of woke SJW with a fantasy take on the real world.

    It is simply police officers doing their job, and meeting a feisty lady with a chip on her shoulder who decides to play the race card for reasons nobody in whom she doesn't confide can know.

    Imagine you are a police officer and know that 70% of those who own dangerous dogs are white, generally have short hair, are aged between 20 and 40 and generally have highly visible tattoos.
    You are tasked with looking in a particular area for the owner of an illegal dog that has attacked a child.
    You pass a park in which there is a white man, aged about 30, with short hair and a large snake tattoo on his face. There are also two old ladies, a tramp, three schookids and a black woman with a pram.
    Question: who would you approach initially to ask about a dangerous dog?
    If you can't answer this one correctly, then you need some help.
  11. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter

    Yeah, right. No doubt they were in the story I have copied into post 109 too.
    monicabilongame likes this.
  12. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    Yep. But that sort of logic won't wash with the race industry, I'm afraid!

    I was stopped by a police officer earlier this year on my way back home over the hills. I got out and answered all her questions with no problem, as I knew I had done nothing wrong.

    After she had checked my address etc through the radio, and had obviously realised that I wasn't under the influence of anything, she said she had followed me for a mile and that I had swerved for seemingly no reason and wanted to check I was OK.

    I thanked her for doing her job and that was that.

    Those people who are emotionally or politically anti-police or anti-authority and want to cause trouble would not, of course, have accepted this and would have moaned and complained about it. It says more about them than it does about the police!
    Oscillatingass likes this.
  13. Jonntyboy

    Jonntyboy Lead commenter

    That is very unlikely.

    The fact that on occasions individual police and individual instances have been wrong cannot be logically extrapolated to make the anti-police generalisations that you and your friends on the hard left want to make.

    But that won't stop you of course. Political ranting beats rationality every time!
    Oscillatingass likes this.
  14. Doitforfree

    Doitforfree Star commenter

    When you've directly experienced the corruption and incompetence of the police you tend to be more sceptical about what they will do. Their easy lying in order to escape sanction is breath taking. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't experienced it for myself. We also have two friends who both left the police because they couldn't stand the culture of lying and incompetence. I am now incredibly wary of the police. I would record any encounter with them.
  15. Bedlam3

    Bedlam3 Star commenter

    She was targeted because she has a tinted windscreen. Anyone with a tinted windscreen should expect to be stopped by the police at some point. Having tinted windows can be a way of concealing who or what is in the vehicle. She should have got out when she was asked to. She also said she was calling her lawyer when in actual fact she was calling her dad so she was lying to the police. How many people have a lawyers number on their mobile that they can just call up? It's usually the reserve of criminals or very wealthy people.
    If the police had all the resources in the world they could have called up a female officer or a black officer but it's just not practical. She was wasting their time and the officers did the right thing to not be intimidated by her playing the racism card. If I was frightened by the police the last thing I would do would be to antagonise the situation by calling them racists. She was deliberately egging them on.
    Oscillatingass likes this.
  16. DrLinus

    DrLinus Lead commenter

    It is possible that this woman's father acts as her lawyer.
  17. florian gassmann

    florian gassmann Star commenter

    Harvey Proctor would undoubtedly agree.
  18. T34

    T34 Lead commenter

    And these are the choices she made -
    Cooperation with the officers = Zero
    Empathy with the officers = Zero
    Concern for officers' well being = Zero
    Concern for decreasing crime in the neighbourhood = Zero.
  19. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter

    I've had two cars (total ownership of 11 years so far) with tinted windscreens; never been stopped. Of course I'm white.

    NB Her windscreen was totally legal.
    monicabilongame likes this.
  20. Spoofer4114

    Spoofer4114 Lead commenter

    Alex could watch 'Roots' and not see any racism.
    monicabilongame and Morninglover like this.

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