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we art teachers are being slagged off!

Discussion in 'Art and design' started by oldtimer 2, Jun 13, 2006.

  1. y9840125

    y9840125 Occasional commenter

    Hi everyone

    I am secondary English. I think there are challenges in every subject and i don't think that any one subject is 'harder' than another.

    I personally love art, work in a school where our art department is one of the most inspiring depts.

    I feel sad that depts no longer seem to be mutually supportive of each other but feel the need to compete or act all hard done by.

  2. manc

    manc New commenter

    thank you, Pollyanna

    Fissa - I'm not kicking anyone when they're down. Interestingly, since you have just launched a spiteful ad hominem attack on me, you are actually the one who is kicking me since apparently everyone in the world (except me) believes that all subjects make equal time demands upon the teacher.

    You can say what you like, but if your subject does not, by its nature, involve the assessment of a large amount of written work, you have got an easier option.

    How you use the time thus freed up is up to you and it is gratifying to see how much art teachers think they do.
  3. And so it is. The 'debate' continues....sigh.....
  4. Manc - you still haven't answered what basis you are forming your opinion on? I asked you this a couple of days ago. I asked you: have you ever been an art teacher or are you basing this on seeing teachers leave early? Have you ever marked any artwork? Do you know what's really involved in the art schemes of work?

  5. manc

    manc New commenter

    Well, I reckon that manc has them fingerless gloves and lives in cellar doing work all the time, innit? He sounds well old and up himself. I bet all the kids hate him for making them do written work.

    Has he ever taught art?


    So everything he says must not be true.

    Stands to reason.
  6. 242 - "You can say what you like, but if your subject does not, by its nature, involve the assessment of a large amount of written work, you have got an easier option."

    Manc - I disagree with easier, just different.

    If you reread some of your responses, you will see how spiteful you have sounded towards others. This may be why the response was so strong towards you, not only by me but by others.
  7. manc

    manc New commenter

    Strength in numbers eh, Fissa?

    The classic defence of the cyber-bully.
  8. Cyber-bully? Pot, kettle, black.

    As i said, "If you reread some of your responses, you will see how spiteful you have sounded towards others."

  9. I had tried to bow out of this debate as I found it frustrating.

    However I just want to pick up on one thing: the statement that "but if your subject does not, by its nature, involve the assessment of a large amount of written work, you have got an easier option."

    This would suggest that:
    assessment of large amount of written work=hard
    all other types of work=easy.

    This is clearly a fallacy, manc, and rather sloppy thinking.

    No-one can deny that English involved many hours of marking written work. This is obvious! Art also involves marking, preparation, assessment and research. Though the proportions of these tasks differ between subjects, it would be false to suggest that the difference in the proportions therefore means that one subject is "easier" than another.

    Do not confuse "easy" with "amount of work".

    I find teaching English (as I now do) easier than when I taught Art simply because I am more suited to it! It is EASIER for me, but EQUALLY TIME CONSUMING in different ways to Art.

  10. manc

    manc New commenter

  11. manc

    manc New commenter

    BTW, Fissa, you are talking rubbish. I have not one supporter on this thread. Look around you. You and your arty mates are ganging up.

    I.e. bullying
  12. manc, why the 'hmm'?

    I don't consider myself a supporter OR a detractor of anyone. I am interested in your opinion, as it's a common one. I am trying to simply engage in debate with you!

  13. manc

    manc New commenter

    OK, I don't buy the argument that it is harder to assess soemthing that is not in written form and which requires annotation and lots of reading.

    I think 'hmmm' because 'the lady doth protest too much' about the rigour and time spent on assessment in art.
  14. Yes; possibly I am protesting too much simply because I find the generalisations we are using as the basis for our argument frustrating!

    I suppose we come down to what we personally find "harder" to do - which is very subjective.

    We can agree that there is MORE marking of written work in English, I suppose.
  15. You are very grumpy today Manc...we have tried to reason and you now think we are cyber bullies....the aggressor turned victim.
  16. manc. we are not 'ganging up', we just all agree with each other.

    You still haven't told us on what basis you are making your argument.

    In the contextual writing they do for Art GCSE, backing up your point is crucial. I would have thought it might be the same for English. You can't just make sweeping statements based on no facts and expect to convince people.

  17. Well blow me down, i thought i gave my support to you manc, i was supporting you in getting that marking done.

    Webfoot said it all really, for some reason manc seems to think that assessment of writing is harder, so we are getting an easy ride.

    Well we do have to assess writing too in art with the contextual studies component.
  18. "You and your arty mates are ganging up. I.e. bullying"

    Manc, I'm sure if I came over to the English forum and posted some equally ridiculous claims about english teaching, from my point of view as an art teacher, I'd find plenty of english teachers defending their cause. Would I consider it bullying. Of course not, silly.

    I can't remember when this thread started, but it was ages ago, and the debate has gone through several phases from sensible to silly. Manc has not, and never will change his mind and has never backed up his 'opinion' with firm evidence. Sometimes I think he just likes the wind-up, but most times I think he really is just as small as his posts suggest.
  19. manc

    manc New commenter

    I'm off (back to my matchbox home) - I can't bear all this self-righteousness.

    Enjoy your free weekend, art teachers.
  20. manc, I believe the only one here displaying an overly exaggerated sense of self-worth and intolerance for others, is you.

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