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Vote Leave? Grassroots Out? Leave EU? Which is the 'out' frontrunner?

Discussion in 'Personal' started by cariadwch, Feb 15, 2016.

  1. cariadwch

    cariadwch Established commenter

    One seems like an extension of UKIP, another with a big focus on immigration, the other led by well established cross party politicians.....which one is best to lead the 'out' campaign?
     
  2. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    The truth is they all have decent points - even as a firm naysayer I can see some OK things about being in the EU and it would be silly to say otherwise. The problem is, most camps just scream their one sided and childishly bias views.

    This is why it is so refreshing to have a referendum. The lazy 'can't touch us' elite of the EU are forced to defend their existence and many can see they struggle badly with this.

    Is that enough to tip your vote? It's up to you. That;s the beauty here.

    As far as being 'OUT' is concerned, look no further than Farage. He is the reason we got the referendum and as I have said on other threads (and even experienced) when he talks the undecided sway to the 'OUT' vote.
     
    Vladimir likes this.
  3. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    What happens to the legal EU workers here? We've discussed the illegals but what about the legal ones, with jobs, paying taxes, etc? Or will the English also have to leave Spain, France, etc? Or the Irish (I'm here as the spouse of an Irish national, but given a Residence Card on the basis of EU law).....

    PS. My husband can vote and will be voting to stay (or else)
     
  4. Vladimir

    Vladimir Senior commenter

    Any party or campaign led by Nigel Farage is the way to go, in my view. He tells it like it is, knows the EU and all its dirty tricks and exposes lies where they are to be found.
     
    oldsomeman likes this.
  5. Vladimir

    Vladimir Senior commenter

    I would think that those with proper jobs, paying taxes etc. will be just fine, so don't worry. I think someone has been scaremongering you...if such a verb can be transitive. As far as sending benefits back for kids in Poland and houses being built in Romania at the expense of the British taxpayer (and non-British taxpayers in Britain with proper, legal jobs), well, that will have to stop. I hope. The EU has been extracting the urine long enough.

    A free Britain doesn't mean no migrants at all.
     
    oldsomeman likes this.
  6. dumpty

    dumpty Star commenter

    Legal means exactly that - you are fine. The only difference will be those wishing to work here afterwards will have to prove they are desirable, just as we do when trying to enter any non EU country. Those already here will not be affected at all, unless new laws requiring more documentation lead to discoveries of illegalities.

    It will be the same for any British in another EU country as all laws are from the present day. For example, when the government decided all cars should have daytime running lights this meant from that day any new car. Cars made before and without running lights are not affected. At all.
     
    oldsomeman likes this.
  7. Yoda-

    Yoda- Lead commenter

    Nigel Farage has become an easily identified EU out politician. He is the obvious choice to lead the campaign, with his one ex Tory MP mandate and political party. Others may be more successful though....
     
  8. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    A special case, the Irish. They will be able to vote on the referendum if living here.
     
  9. silvaran

    silvaran Occasional commenter

    How will that work then for EU citizens such as me who have been here for less than 5 years? Non EU citizens can't apply for permanent residence unless they have been living here for 5 years and there is a massively complicated 100 page document to complete that takes into account the different levels, wealth and status of applicants. Fair enough if the UK wants to leave the UK, but similar arrangements would have to apply for UK citizens wanting to settle or retire in the EU.
    Many EU states don't allow dual citizenship - Netherlands and Poland for example
     
    sabrinakat likes this.
  10. silvaran

    silvaran Occasional commenter

    How do you know that?
     
  11. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    Fine at the moment, but @silvaran points a very difficult issue - renewal of said documentation in 2020.

    I am here not on the basis of my husband being Irish, but that he is an EU national. My husband is also a British citizen, and as @HelenREMfan points out - her American born husband had a long process to get citizenship - for us, will I have to go through that route, e.g. leave the country, get a spouse visa and pay 600+ pounds just for that renewal, let alone to try for citizenship?

    I am remembering something about a baby and bath water.....

    ps. said application for a Residence Card (even though EU law says I don't need it; my employer does (under UK law) is about 140 pages. Lots of fun, especially when the Home Office keep your passport for over a year, your local MP tries 4 times to get it sorted and ultimately, and only with a threat of prosecution by the EU Rights Clinic, do you get what you legally do not need. During that process, I received numerous 'deportation' letters, even though I was legal. I cannot imagine how the Home Office will deal with renewals, plus will they really throw out millions of EU workers and their families to satisfy the thousands of illegals?

    According to this (below) over 3 million non-EU in the UK; 1.6 million non-EU working here
    http://www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/briefings/migration-flows-a8-and-other-eu-migrants-and-uk

    I've also attached a report from Parliament, check out page 16:
    Table 2 argues that out of a population of 58,312,000 - the overall population that is EU is 8.2% and non EU 3.8%.....
     

    Attached Files:

    silvaran likes this.
  12. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    We're worth it?
     
  13. T34

    T34 Lead commenter

    Amazing isn't it, we are being asked to vote on it inabout 4 months and we don't know the answers to some of these questions. Why is that, I wonder.
     
  14. silvaran

    silvaran Occasional commenter

    3 million x 600 raises quite a bit of money, but the process already takes ages....your Home Office will have to hire a few thousand more staff to decided who stays and who doesn't. Perhaps the process should only apply to East Europeans: the wealthier French, Germans and Dutch could have a separate arrangement, like the Irish have already......and perhaps the Scots may have in future.
     
  15. HelenREMfan

    HelenREMfan Star commenter

    Good points @sabrinakat .... surely you wouldn't be forced to go through all that process - especially returning to your country of origin to apply for the spouse visa? For us he had only been here 6 months + and had plenty of generous siblings willing for him to live there whilst the spouse visa trudged thought its course.

    I just found it incredulous that it cost us so much, was such a process, when we have people from non- Commonwealth/EU countries here - in receipt of benefits - I quote the "hook-handed one Abu Hamza and his numerous dependents as an example (not to mention the cost of keeping so many of them in UK jails for their crimes) Damn annoying.
     
    sabrinakat likes this.
  16. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Because everyone has to wait for the results of the "negotiations" :rolleyes:
     
  17. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    The Irish left the UK, British Empire and Commonwealth. Maybe we should allow carefully selected European countries to apply for membership in those august bodies working up from Commonwealth to member of the United Kingdom and so achieving subject status for their citizens.
     
  18. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    Think not of the cost but of the value!
     
  19. Didactylos4

    Didactylos4 Star commenter

    Not all of them I believe
     
  20. racroesus

    racroesus Star commenter

    True, true.
     

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