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Very young HT's and PT's

Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by segbog, Feb 10, 2012.

  1. One case on Fife and one in Paisley.

    Young, pretty and blonde getting promotion. HT in Fife and PT in Paisley. PT in Paisley was NQT last year - has been been put there by numpty, grasping ,numpty of an HT. Surrounding herself by inexperienced and malleable heads of departments - this is wrong. A PT who cannot teacher Higher adequately is no PT. She is also interviewing people. Why is this allowed?
     
  2. You sound very better and twisted segbog, as do most of your previous posts. I assume you, and your massive experience, have been thwarted re: promotion in the past. Perhaps you should quit teaching and get a job where your skills would be more valued?
     
  3. catmother

    catmother Star commenter

    I know that segbog is rather blunt in his (her) views but I am afraid that is being said does ring horribly true.
     
  4. Freddie92

    Freddie92 Occasional commenter

    I can understand both views here. Segbog is obviously hacked off about seeing someone with little teaching experience becoming PT let alone someone with management experience (and I personally would never count PT Guidance as management!). On the other hand I can also see how age shouldn't come into it, but as I said credibility & experience is what counts. It does seem though that many HTs will simply appoint people who kiss ass and are indeed 'yes' men. This is sad but naturally reflective of many walks of life. I know for example a rather abrasive and unhelpful member of staff who when asked to do anything always replies "too busy". But when the HT asks she jumps through hoops. So now what I do is I go to the HT and pretend I have identified someone for the role and ask him to ask her! It is funny.
     
  5. You can be older, have lots of experience in managing things and be new to teaching.
     
  6. I completely agree with airy and Fred, who says that someone new to teaching is going to be a yes-person or unable to teach Higher?! I actually find such views offensive.
    Many people enter teaching having come from industry or research and are more than capable of teaching Higher and Adv Higher from the start. So glad to hear Fred mention 'ordinary degrees' - couldn't agree more!!

    I know of people that have been teaching for 20 years and to be quite honest, I wonder why they are being allowed to teach Higher!
    Being a PT early on very much depends on the person, many people are more than capable of it and being new most certainly does not mean saying yes to everything or that you have poor discipline.

     
  7. lookinglost

    lookinglost New commenter

    Agreed with the entire post. I think your last paragraph makes a particularly good point. I don't like how really good PTs and SMT are implied to be poor at their job or in the HT pocket just because they are new or young. I think it could be a real insult to someone who is great at their job and work hard. I sometimes get the feeling there can be some jealousy towards some of these teachers. Although I am aware that some new or young PTs/SMT can be out of their depth but the same goes for older ones to, as another thread has already alluded to.
    I believe this has come up several times in the last couple of days. I think it's a great point.
     
  8. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    The promotion system in education is, shall we say, sometimes ineffectual. Some would say corrupt. I recall a scenario where three successive senior staff were promoted into a school known to me and all from the same source school. No one seemed to raise an eyebrow at the unlikely probabilty of there being three such talented managers all from the same school and all the best people of all the appicants for the posts.
    When one of these reached the post of acting HT and achieved a permanent post in another authority, that person made a leaving speech in which he/she referred to this situation by saying that he/she and his / her cronies had talked of creating a "dream team". Again, no one said anything in public although some complained in private. What is really astonishing is that this person thought it was perfectly acceptable to talk openly of such nepotism without the slightest embarrasment. Cabinet minsters have had to resign for less but its OK for some senior managers in Scottish secondary schools.

    The blame of course lies with teachers. We really should be using our employer's "whistle blowing " procedures to expose such practices but it never happens. So, in some cases, and to some extent, we get the management we deserve.
     
  9. Yep Dominie, totally agree (although I don't know what I've done to deserve the feckless fools in my school,though, but I will try to rectify it...[​IMG])
    By the way I dislike the arrogance of some posters on here making assumptions about a person's ability using gender, age, qualification's or hair colour. In my opinion promotion is handed to those who least deserve it no matter their qualities....
     
  10. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    No, I don't know her which is why I asked the questions I did (which you chose to ignore, possibly because it would expose your vitriol as knee-jerk, bitter and ill-informed). I am open to the possibility of people being promoted ahead of others unfairly. However, you provide no evidence that this is what has occurred here (although you offensively present their hair colour, looks and age as such).

    I know no such thing. I don't understand why people think teaching Higher is any more difficult than any other level. The only thing that makes Higher different from other levels is the high stakes nature of the qualification and subsequent pressure on pupils and their teachers. Yes, what you teach pupils at Higher is more specialised than, for example, S Grade, but you're educated to degree level in the subject!

    In future, please refrain from from personal insults in place of mature discussion. Any accusation of incompetence should be backed up by real evidence.
     
  11. Freddie92

    Freddie92 Occasional commenter

    Then that would be fine as you are managing people i.e. your staff. I think it is when people are both young and inexperienced that the problem lies due to lack of credibility and lack of experience (BTW I hasten to add not just in teaching or in managing people, but even life experience). It's like the England job. The names being bandied about are all experienced and credible. You don't hear many going for managers with no track record and who have only been in club management 2 or 3 seasons. I am not ageist in the slightest, but I believe in experience and credibility.
     
  12. Nonsense as usual on TES. The subject I am talking about requires leaps in imagination and a philosophical bent in your teaching. It is not a case of E = 7. It is not an exact science. Young folk do not have the capacity or experience in life to teach it. That is not an insult, it is a fact.

    Jeez - some folk. Get real!
     
  13. halfajack

    halfajack Occasional commenter

    What subject are you talking about? I teach English which is a subject requiring what you describe but I don't believe anyone in their early 20s who has a degree and has passed the standard for full registration should be less able to lead teenagers through Higher than someone a little bit older...and how much older are we talking? What age limit would you put on teaching Higher? I notice you're still ignoring my previous questions and choosing to selectively reply to bits you think can easily be scoffed at.
     
  14. Same subject - and if you believe a 20 odd year old can teach Higher and Advanced...then you are wrong. Sorry. That is the way it is. And I will ignore your other comments because I can't be bothered.
     
  15. Will take that back..your obviously some kind of science or PE teacher to come out with that p**h...you have my sympathies..***..
     
  16. morrisseyritual

    morrisseyritual Occasional commenter

    I am a grubby, shuffling old teacher and have come to accept that a lot of the kids are enthused, revitalised and dazzled by young incoming teachers, as are a great many of my staff. I retain a sense of humour about my class, colleagues and office politics because there is nothing new under the sun. I've seen awful heads of department and teachers who are young and old. I have seen young English teachers - early twenties, fire inspiration in a group of Higher kids in composing their personal studies by showing how they studied. Not everyone who graduated post 2000 cut and paste their dissertations or theses from the net. Many did, I suspect, but not as many as we think.
    There is a real issue in terms of man-management that maybe needs addressed for all who are promoted in a school and that is there simply isn't the training of an individual in how to be a manager, no qualification. If there is a qualification of headship there should be one in PTship, DeputeHeadship - and guidance/PSE!
    We can all give way to jealousy when a colleague we hate/we unrequitedly lust after/ don't rate professionally gets kudos or jobs ahead of us. Trick is to knife that bad karma out. Kill that in you because it will focus your energies in self-destructive avenues.
    When is it good segbog? The laugh you have with the close friends you may have? The quiet pint had after a terrible week? Approaching holidays? What would the funniest, most trusted person you know say in this situation? Would they agree? Or would they tell you to drop it, it's poisoning you?

     
  17. Paisley? Young? Blonde? And if segbiog is an English teacher, perhaps means she is too. I suspect I do know her, and she's a great PT and a great teacher too. Absolutely deserves the position.

    Age has very little to do with it - it's how you inspire others. Alexander the Great had conquered most of the known world by the time he was 30.

    Agree with you, morriseyritual - segbiog sounds very poisoned - and a misogynist to boot.
     
  18. Freddie92

    Freddie92 Occasional commenter

    Yeah but 30 back in Alexander's day was middle aged. How you inspire others? I have worked with very few middle managers who inspire others.
     
  19. Surely if you have a degree in a subject you should be able to make leaps in imagination within its context?
     
  20. kibosh

    kibosh Star commenter

    Yes, but perhaps struggle to get your pupils to achieve the same or even similar. That takes leaps of imagination within a pedagogical context perhaps.
    [​IMG] Don't know.
     

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