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Verbal warnings and application forms- Theo

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by userunknown, Sep 18, 2015.

  1. userunknown

    userunknown New commenter

    I was recently given a verbal warning-have never had a verbal or written warning prior to this.

    However I am concerned of the impact this will have on future employments. Looking at an application form for a leadership position, this question has concerned me:

    either in your work or personal life, or disciplinary action, including any which is time expired?

    Is this asking for disciplinary action related to child protection concern or just in general? I don't want to be offered the post and then dismissed as 'lying on application form'.
     
  2. jago123

    jago123 Established commenter

    It seems it is asking for any disciplinary you have been subject to. You haven't provided much information why you got the warning for? It would depend though on the seriousness of the actual case. Remember, if you are short-listed, the HT of that school will contact your school for a reference before interview, so once that application is submitted you won't have a chance in changing it.
     
  3. jago123

    jago123 Established commenter

    And you do need to tell your current HT that you are applying for a new job too.
     
  4. CWadd

    CWadd Star commenter

    Its standard on all application forms to ask if you have been subject to CP concerns or disciplinary.

    Its also standard to ask for it in references, including agreed ones.
     
  5. userunknown

    userunknown New commenter

    It was not CP related and was minor, Rep had requested for not to be given unfortunately new HT insisted on this. Others have mentioned that they do not add verbal warnings to their application but my worry is if it was ever highlighted it could lead to dismissal.
     
  6. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    You must answer that question 100% honestly if you apply for a post, I'm afraid. Heads will always insist on knowing about disciplinary proceedings, whether they're CP related or not. Many non-CP issues might lead a head to decide a person is not a suitable candidate for leadership.
     
  7. TheoGriff

    TheoGriff Star commenter

    [​IMG]

    You must always be 100% honest on any application form or letter/statement.

    Here are a couple of the advice articles, not directly relevant to you, but they nonetheless may be of interest:

    The Truth, the Whole Truth, and Nothing but the Truth!

    I have just been convicted of a minor offence. Do I need to tell the school?

    Can your Head write a negative reference for you? Or refuse to write one? Can you see what was written...

    Best wishes

    ___________________________________________________

    Meet Theo on line on the TES JobSeekers Forum, where she answers jobseeking and careers queries regularly each week.
     
  8. userunknown

    userunknown New commenter

    Thank you, the verbal warning was minor- not inputting data correctly. I didn't have any training with the system at the time and had highlighted this on 2 occasions. It will soon be removed from my file. But seems from comments above I still have to report it- it might aswell stay on file forever if I have to report regardless. Having spoken to a few colleagues it seems many don't report on anything no longer in their files however I don't want to always worry about being find out :-(
     
  9. chriszwinter1

    chriszwinter1 New commenter

    You could of course lie, but I'm certainly not recommending that course of action, unless you want to face summary dismissal, a referral to the DBS and / or NCTL ahd the possibility of a criminal investigation,
     
  10. scienceteachasghost

    scienceteachasghost Lead commenter

    I would personally not consider a verbal warning as something that has to be declared! Otherwise, 'disciplinary action' could extend to a mild admonishment from your line manager!

    In your case though, it really is not the crime of the century. If you declare it and explain it I can't see a Head overlooking you just because, effectively, your management were at fault for not training you in correct data entry!
     
  11. scienceteachasghost

    scienceteachasghost Lead commenter

    Unless of course your data entry led to a child getting an A* in coursework instead of a G say............
     
  12. jago123

    jago123 Established commenter

    Inputting data incorrectly? Did you not mark assessments and exams inline with the grade boundaries thus the errors? If you've got the results / grades on hard copy, it should be easy to enter it into the school's database? ePortal? CMIS? SIMS?...
     
  13. irs1054

    irs1054 Star commenter

    I think this post does raise some serious issues about:

    1. What constitutes disciplinary action.

    2. What sort of performance issue should be classed as requiring disciplinary action and how should it be recorded.

    3. What sort of declaration should be required, particularly of time expired data, in an application.

    It seems that the poster has had some harsh treatment for something that was relatively trivial and something which the poster flagged up as an issue.

    It also seems that the whole point of time expired is being nullified by this school's application system.

    Teacher's are human, they make mistakes, they sometimes do the wrong thing. Any disciplinary system has to take account of this and be proportionate as well as taking account of the obvious fixed points such as safeguarding.

    It is obviously necessary to have things on file (some permanently), but if the concept of time expired is to mean anything then schools should not be asking this to be included in any declaration.

    As far as the poster is concerned, I think that they have to answer the question honestly. If there is space underneath the question for an explanation, then make sure to put down about the actual detail relating to the warning including date and when it will be time expired (if known)

    If, as I have found on some forms, there is just space for a yes/no and a request to put the detail in a separate section later on in the form, I would be inclined to leave the yes/no blank and then answer the question in the separate section. The idea being to keep the fact of a warning disclosed together with the explanation of what that warning was for. Otherwise, there is a chance the yes would cause the application to be rejected without looking at the explanation of what the warning was for.
     
    stmha likes this.
  14. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter

    Reading this in the OP's position:



    I would - with some trepidation, perhaps - have declared 'No', on the basis that the school's concern is about CP (understandably), and the OP's actions were not (as far as we can judge from here) in any way connected with CP.

    I would also wish to know from the HT of my current school exactly what - in his/her terms - a 'verbal warning' means,a nd how it will be treated by the school in future. I would certainly involve my union in this.
     
  15. School Boy Error

    School Boy Error Occasional commenter

    I would disagree here. I read the statement as having two questions:

    (1) Have you ever been the subject of any child protection concern either in your work or personal life, (2) or disciplinary action, including any which is time expired?

    So while they could answer no to the first part I think they must answer yes to the "or disciplinary action" unfortunately,
     
  16. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter



    It could be read that way but is, at least, unclear and that means, IMHO, the OP can legitimately respond as I suggested.



    Incidentally if the school meant it as you suggest, is that actually legal because isn't it only in CP that they can ask about 'time expired' disciplinary measures?
     
  17. School Boy Error

    School Boy Error Occasional commenter

    [​IMG]

    Not sure about the legality. If that is the case then it must be referring only to CP issues to which the OP can honestly answer no.
     
  18. drek

    drek Star commenter

    "personal life" Do you really want to work for such school, that is proudly broadcasting it's dictatorial policy? For a laugh you could list all the 'expired' verbal warnings you got as a child from teachers, parents and well basically anyone involved in your life heh heh.
    After all these days it could be the fourth cousin of the HT who has been given a position of authority in 'their' school for no other reason. No qualifications nor detailed application process necessary.
    They give you a verbal warning these days for no reason, simply because it says it is good evidence for their own performance management purposes. Silly is as silly does!
     
  19. old_dobbin

    old_dobbin Occasional commenter

    You say you were given a "verbal warning", but was it a formal disciplinary warning or merely a warning in the normal sense of the word? Did you have a meeting with your employer, also attended by a trade union rep? Was it a warning of the type referred to in the school's disciplinary policy and procedure? If so, that should set out how long it will stay on your file etc. For example, a head might warn all staff that exam results need to improve-do they all need to put that on job applications?
     
  20. stmha

    stmha Established commenter

    Two great replies here, iris and dobbin.

    The bottom line is after 6 months a vb gets removed.many school you apply to will understand that many teachers get into a pickle and if it was serious you would have been given further warnings. Any school that dosnt understand that maybe worth steering clear.

    I have to agree with the view that it doesnt sound like your school has followed the protocols for disciplinary action. Why dont you check the ACAS website, in particular Disciplinary and Grievance code of Practice, very esy to read and very useful.
     

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