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VCOP - diff between openers and connectives?

Discussion in 'Primary' started by whodbeateacher, Aug 3, 2007.

  1. Trying to set up a simple display for Y2 to improve their writing but not too sure in my own mind of the different between openers and connectives?

    So, for example, the word 'because' could be both, simply depending on it's place in the sentence. And are connectives the same as 'joining words' / 'prepositions'.

    Current Y2 teacher has a list of what she calls 'joining words' which includes - after a while, during, after, meanwhile, before, because, unless, later, when ....

    Surely many of these are sentence openers?

    Help!
     
  2. Trying to set up a simple display for Y2 to improve their writing but not too sure in my own mind of the different between openers and connectives?

    So, for example, the word 'because' could be both, simply depending on it's place in the sentence. And are connectives the same as 'joining words' / 'prepositions'.

    Current Y2 teacher has a list of what she calls 'joining words' which includes - after a while, during, after, meanwhile, before, because, unless, later, when ....

    Surely many of these are sentence openers?

    Help!
     
  3. I was taught..... many moons ago..... that you never started a sentence with because.

    Think I'll start another thread to see what others think.
     
  4. Because rosalie36 disagreed with the idea, she started another post.

     
  5. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

    "Because of the rain, we had to stay indoors."
    Nothing wrong at all.
    Same when it's intoducing a subordinate clause:
    "Because we were all so desperately hungy and tired, we decided to stop."
    That's fine.
     
  6. Milgod

    Milgod Established commenter


    I think it's a great word to start a sentence (if used properly).
     
  7. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

    A more valid rule is that sentences don't end with that word (as a rule!)
     
  8. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter


    I suspect rosalie was taught a teacher's rule purporting to be a rule of the language.
    "Why does she think that?
    "Because she believes everything that teacher says."
    There are those who think that answers to questions have to be in free (not subordinate) clause form. But that's just personal opinion, not fact.
     
  9. Ooh, I nearly fell out with a parent over starting sentences with because. Even when I gave her three god examples of sentences starting with because, she still wouldn't have it! She was a teacher as well! Grrrrrrrrrrr.
     
  10. minnieminx

    minnieminx New commenter

    I was also taught never to begin a sentence with 'because'. I remember being in top infants and doing endless reading comprehensions and not being allowed to start my answers with 'because'. Drove me nuts.

    Though we started each morning by doing lots of 'sums', then a reading comprehension and then reciting tables. Wonder if I should bring it back with year 2 now...?
     
  11. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

    I think it's probably teachers more than others who believe that what their teacher said MUST be right.
    Once worked with a Head of RE who wouldn't have it that it's fine to start sentences with "And".
    And she had a King James Bible on her desk!
     
  12. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter


    (There's a god example for you!)
     
  13. When I was at primary school we were taught not to start a sentence with 'because'. I think this rule was partly designed to ensure proper answers to comprehension questions. We were taught to always answer comprehension questions with full sentences. And I think that makes good sense, because answering a comprehension question with a full sentence is a check that you are answering the question with a relevant answer. We were taught to contain the question in the answer "Why did he eat the cake?", " He ate the cake because...". Also, I don't think teachers then expected such young children to know how to use 'because' properly at the beginning of a sentence. They felt it best to steer children away from it altogether, to prevent children putting full stops in the middle of their sentences in error. For the same reason, we were always steered away from starting sentences with 'and' or 'but'.
     
  14. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

    "Steering away" is OK. You tell them it's just to please you. It's when you pretend isomething's wrong when it isn't that you're "cheating" as you might say.
    (When youngsters are doing comrehension in a test/exam that somebody's being paid to mark by a mark scheme, then you need to teach them to answer in as short a form as possible. A single word, if posssible.
    Absolutely dire to keep throwing the question back at the examiner. HE KNOWS what the question is. Just wants to see the answer! "He ate the cake because..." is awful exam technique. "Hunger" or "greed" or whatever is what is wanted.)
     
  15. I don't think the teachers in question were thinking about the examiner, they were thinking about how best to support the child in answering the question correctly. I know this technique is no longer taught but some children would benefit from it: the ones who just pull out some random thing they've noticed in the text and write it down as the answer, ***** nilly.In addition, writing a phrase such as 'Because he saw a car." as a sentence in continuous text is wrong. The teachers who steered us away from using 'because' at the beginning of a sentence were thinking of this, I think. I soon learnt that such rules could be broken in the course of English lessons at secondary school. Meanwhile, it served a purpose.I do think we should teach children to write straightforward, clear English before we attempt to teach them more complex sentence structures. It's about using language to communicate, not to tick someone's VCOP boxes.
     
  16. markuss

    markuss Occasional commenter

    OK but again "steering" is different from commanding.
    You were able to learn the truth, that such "rules" aren't truly rules of the language. However, you'll be aware that one of the hardest things for a teacher to do is to unteach things that have been drummed into children when they're young and impressionable.
    And, as for test/exam work, as with all writing, sense of audience is really important.
     
  17. Sorry, I really can't go with the idea that children should consider the examiner in answering comprehension questions. There is no need for a sense of audience in this context. There is a need for correct answers. It's not necessary for children to learn that it is OK to start sentences with 'because', only for them to be told that in certain special circumstances they can do it, and these are the special circumstances. After all, we tell children that you cannot take 7 away from 6, until they become ready to understand negative numbers.
     
  18. Bizarre. I posted the original post way back in 2007!!!!!!!!!!!
    Not sure why rosalie.. etc chose to answer it 5 years later but good to see lively debate!!
     
  19. Pay attention WBAT! That should read 'no idea why garethedwards' ..... !

     

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