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Using Serif WebPlus to teach web page creation

Discussion in 'Computing and ICT' started by colwynexile, Apr 19, 2011.

  1. colwynexile

    colwynexile Occasional commenter

    My advice is to search the forum as there's been lots of debates about the pros and cons of serif products.
     
  2. djphillips1408

    djphillips1408 New commenter

  3. It doesn't create HTML, really. What it creates is a collection of objects which are in fixed places on the page. It is fine for knocking something up quickly but utterly useless for learning actual web page design, and gains nothing that you don't already get from (say) Publisher.
     
  4. On the other hand, it does give them tools for creating a structure and navigation bars, master pages, gets them thinking about the structure of the site, gives them a quick way of previewing the site in a browser... none of which are easily available in any version of Publisher I've ever used.
     
  5. colwynexile

    colwynexile Occasional commenter

    See what I mean? If you go back through the forums there's page of this.
    simply put, it's a great tool for certain uses and can be utilised all the way up to KS5, however if you were going on to degree or work you wouldn't use it in that situation.
    the thing to remember is we are not just teaching the 'push this key, then that one' skills, we're giving a background knowledge that allow the pupil to utilise mot pieces of software that they will be using when they are our age.
    Still, scroll back the forums to see the (at times) childish level of debate
     
  6. I LOVE serif, I made the change from dreamweaver to webplus last year - its bloody fantastic - yes for the purists its not technical but its easy for the kids to use and creates professional looking websites fairly easily
     
  7. That isn't the problem. The problem is it's not web design. It's DTP with a printer driver that outputs HTML.
     
  8. djphillips1408

    djphillips1408 New commenter

    Sorry what problem is that? We are talking about kids aged 11-16 producing something meaningful that they can put on the web. If you want to teach year 7s raw html to get them to produce a simple colour shaded table with the words "hello world" in it after 3 hours then you are living in the dark ages. It's a tool to produce something, I don't think you quite get the idea that all these kids are not going to end up with careers in web design, at most it would be 2% of any cohort that go on to need a skill set that you are implying and they can learn that at a later date, or in fact most will self teach if pointed in the right direction.
     
  9. Have to agree here - and I don't use Serif Web Plus,though we have it and Dreamweaver, I still use Front Page because it has an easier interface for younger students (foibles & all). You can teach web design ie site structure, page structure, layout, accessibility, impact . etc. using any and all of them. As for the HTML the vast majority do not need to know how to code, just have a VERY basis unerstanding that it exists and a little about it.
    the same argument being rehashed here yet again can be applied to virtually any software. Autismuk, I respect the majority of your postings but you are overdoing it on this one.Do you teach programming? If so how far do you want to go back for coding? Binary? Or do you use languages/programs that use a compiler and interpreter that do the conversion for you? I've programmed at low level, I've programmed in various shades of BASIC, C, C+, C++, etc. Ive also used LOGO, FLOWOL, Scratch, etc. All have faults, foibles etc and try to make things easier so we use them. I also used to be able to strip a car down and repair/replace just about everything but these days I don't, I let the garage do it for me because much of it has got too complicated. It doesn't mean I don't understand the principles & basics though - I can describe the 4 stroke cycle, carburation system etc. Oh and I am self taught in all that too.
    I agree Serif is more of a DTP package but it does convert/compile some HTML, however badly, and it works. The exam boards are rarely interested in the coding (except for showing trivial changes in some instances), it more about imact and effectiveness of presentation and having a web that works.
    If the software helps produce what is necessary for the exa specs, then it is appropriate.
    If the teacher teaches effectively the students will understand this.
    If the students want to get on with or into coding html themselves we should always be able to point them in the right direction and encourage them.
    Just like I did with my cars and later doing courses specifically about many things like programming, photography, water colour painting, wind surfing, etc .......... non of which were available to me at school.
     
  10. djphillips1408

    djphillips1408 New commenter

    Or option B could be that you simply don't like it and are not minded to listen to anyone. What "dead end" is this? Why not visit some of the sites on the link below
    http://www.serif.com/webplus-competition/
    Do you honestly think that any of those are not a solid presence on the net for these organisations? Do you think that because they were not knocked up usign raw code then people are going to say "do you know I am not going to buy their products because clearly they did not create the CSS from scratch themselves".
    Some of my kids have created sites of a similar sort of standard as to the links above, and do you know what I am quite happy with that and funnily enough so are they, a few of them even got a few bob from people for setting sites up for them. Whilst around 15% of kids who have used the software actually decided to buy it from the school because they liked using it.
    If you want to have the "I know my technology better than any of you" high ground then be my guest, I just sit on the dullard step with a bunch of kids that thoroughly enjoy the lessons and can't write a line of html to saave their lives.
     
  11. I am genuinely surprised that an intelligent man like you doesn't understand why PagePlus is a dead end for web design.
    You assume wrongly that I don't like Web Plus (I do have some concerns about the program's stability but that seems to have improved in later versions).


     
  12. No, my logic would be that if Scratch didn't do subroutines it wouldn't be appropriate however easy it was.
    Webplus isn't web design, no more than Powerpoint and Publisher are.

    I think we'll have to agree to differ on this one :)

     
  13. Define web design please.
     
  14. Designing stuff for the web ?
    I don't think Powerpoint or Publishers web output is 'web design', simply because the programs output HTML.

     
  15. colwynexile

    colwynexile Occasional commenter

    Web design 'surely' is how a web page is prepared and organised to be displayed on the web. It will look at audience, purpose, suitability, and will be informed by previous designs, etc. It will then be planned, and organised to be adapted to a suitable house style, to ensure the maximum impact with the target audience.
    In essence, I don't think any web site creation package output is 'web design' just because it produces a web site

     

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