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UQT Observations

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by emmaohwow, Jan 16, 2020.

  1. emmaohwow

    emmaohwow New commenter

    I am an Unqualified Teacher in a Secondary school. I am just curious to find out whether a UQT is and should be observed under the same conditions as a teacher?

    Thank you
  2. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Lead commenter

    No idea on the rules but I would be surprised if they were not.
  3. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    I would expect so. The school still needs to be sure the quality of teaching is as it should be.
  4. Shedman

    Shedman Star commenter

    If you're doing a teacher's job then expect a teacher's observation.
  5. hhhh

    hhhh Lead commenter

    But why would they expect an unqualified teacher to be doing a teacher's job? You wouldn't expect a random person (or a student in her first week of medical school)to perform heart surgery, and hold them accountable, would you? If this is a student teacher we're discussing, although they have observations, things are different-admittedly it's a long time since I've mentored, but we would not expect a student to have exactly the same types of observation. If a cover supervisor, again we would not expect the same as a QT. Maybe speak to your union?
    BetterNow and emmaohwow like this.
  6. emmaohwow

    emmaohwow New commenter

    In 18 months, I have ‘taught’ 4 subjects, marked GCSE coursework (only 2 didn’t get a 4 or above). But my last observation did not meet the ‘tailoring’ standard. So now, I have to be observed again. As you can imagine- I have taken this personally! This may ruffle feathers but the UQT is always looks down on and the scape goat. I have intended to do my training but this has put a bee in my bonnet!!
  7. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    Unless you are a PE teacher, sign up for a PGCE and be paid to have a light teaching year and get QTS and a PGCE into the bargain.
  8. emmaohwow

    emmaohwow New commenter

  9. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    But this is not a ‘random’ person. This is somebody who has obviously been assessed by the employer as competent to do the job, and appointed to a teaching post.

    Yes, you would expect a UQT to be subject to the same monitoring and standards as any other.

    Given the many issues with the quality of ITT, it’s amazing how precious some are about their precious QTS certificates. Some people know their subject inside-out and are perfectly able to teach effectively, even without the benefit of a year on the high-quality teach first programme, or a nigh-impossible-to-fail PGCE...
  10. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    The poster doesn’t refer to being a student or a cover supervisor, they are a teacher.

    The only difference between an UQT and a QTS teacher is the pay scale.
  11. ET67

    ET67 New commenter

    The poster doesn’t refer to being a student or a cover supervisor, they are a teacher.

    The only difference between an UQT and a QTS teacher is the pay scale.

    What I am about to say may upset some people. However I believe in my conviction which is...unqualified staff are not teachers. One is a 'teacher' when one is properly qualified. Learning does not stop after a PGCE though - we should continually learn and improve.

    With regard to managing unqualified staff with formal observations - totally unfair. They are not trained and should not be there in the first place. As a former Principal in the UK I know how poorly unqualified instructors are paid.

    I would never want my own children being taught by unqualified staff - only for musical instruction for example.
  12. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    Because the only secondary subject currently capped is PE! If you were a PE teacher all the places have been filled already. No bursary and a difficult job market for PE teachers. We advise them to do PE with EBACC or to convert to maths or science. They make excellent teachers of both with all the maths and science in their A levels and degrees.
    FrauRussell and agathamorse like this.
  13. ridleyrumpus

    ridleyrumpus Lead commenter

    Whilst I agree with the sentiment I have my doubts about the emphasis currently placed on lesson observations in determining the quality of teaching.
  14. Skeoch

    Skeoch Lead commenter

    Well..... anecdote only but I have worked with many extremely effective and successful teachers who are not qualified as teachers. I have also seen holes in the teaching of some who are unqualified - and the holes caused as far as I could tell by the lack of specific pedagogical training. I worked with one teacher whose only qualification in Maths was an O Level; he always taught the bottom sets and got them through their exams remarkably successfully.
    That said, I'd be wary of appointing somebody unqualified unless there was very good reason. The good reason might be an excellent track record elsewhere, or desperation (Physics teachers are as rare as hen's teeth...)
  15. mrkeys

    mrkeys Occasional commenter

    That statement is quite insulting to musicians.

    You will find that the music peri staff will be qualified in their subject normally to a very high level. Some do have qualified teacher status. I know this as I was once Head of a Saturday music school.
    agathamorse likes this.
  16. CheeseMongler

    CheeseMongler Lead commenter

    Whilst I do agree that some PE teachers make excellent science or maths teachers, I can't "allow" that comment to pass unchallenged. Whilst they have some maths and science in their degrees, the Chemistry and Physics is very lacking. If their motivation to teach science is just to get a bursary, rather than an underlying interest in the subject, then I can't see any becoming excellent teachers.
  17. physicsfanboy

    physicsfanboy Occasional commenter

    I can't agree more. I have seen some execrable science 'teaching' from non science staff who 'did some science as part of their degree'. In one case this was a person who had studied dance science, and knew absolutely no science whatsoever. You actually need to know your stuff as an absolute basic requirement, and liking the subject helps a lot too. The shortage of science staff is a direct result of the contempt all teachers receive from OFSTED / the government / society / many managers. There's a shortage of all staff, but in the academic, content heavy subjects it's less easy to get away with any random body you happen to have available.
    ET67 likes this.
  18. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    You are all a bit late to the party here. 60% of maths teachers don’t have a maths degree. Same for MFL. Even English runs at 20% without an English degree. They’ve abandoned any hope of getting enough people with first degrees in their subjects. Being a good teacher is the first quality. Subject knowledge comes second. The Govian reforms killed the attraction of teaching, Pension and accountability on top of an otherwise difficult position has put paid to such lofty ideals. Be thankful for a qualified teacher let alone one with subject knowledge.
    ET67 likes this.
  19. sabrinakat

    sabrinakat Star commenter

    Well, I disagree totally. In many independent schools, it is perhaps the quality of education, not just a PGCE. I came into secondary teaching with Oxbridge and a PhD. Never had an issue getting interviews and jobs but in Classics, they have to think outside the box as there are only 32 PGCE slots for Classics a year (and in my first job, got more than the bursary that a PhD guarantees)

    ps. My salary is at the UPS+ scale, I have excellent results and am a 'proper' teacher.
    Pomza and caterpillartobutterfly like this.
  20. ET67

    ET67 New commenter

    OK... I also worked as a Directror of Music - in independent schools - and have worked in the music industry at a fairly high level. I know the level of erudition musicians possess and what it like to endure the ABRSM exam treadmill. I believe in teacher education and fear the erosion of our rights if unqualified staff are allowed to drift into the profession.

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