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UPS3 - more success or capability?

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by Delerium, Feb 6, 2020.

  1. Delerium

    Delerium New commenter

    I am starting a new regular classroom post in Sept. I am UPS3, having been part of the first cohort many years ago. My new HT has advised that, unless I am prepared to undertake some whole school research, to report to staff on a regular basis, I’m better off on M6. If I insist on UPS3, and fail to commit my time to said research, I am vulnerable to capability further down the line.

    Is this normal?
  2. nomad

    nomad Star commenter

    Teachers paid on the UPS are now only entitled to be paid on the UPS while they continue to be employed in that same school. Governing bodies do however have the discretion to appoint new teachers to the UPS where they have been paid on the UPS at their previous school.

    If you wish to retain your UPS pay, then you will need to contribute more than just classroom teaching.

    Paragraph 15.2 of the STPCD provides that for an application to be successful, the relevant body must be satisfied that the teacher is: “highly competent in all elements of the relevant standards; and that the teacher’s achievements and contribution to an education setting or settings are substantial and sustained”.

    Is this normal?

    Yes. Absolutely.
  3. Delerium

    Delerium New commenter

    Thank you, Nomad. Perhaps I should have known, but I didn’t.
    Is there a future consequence - beyond reduced pay- of relinquishing a UPS3 hard won in the ‘00s?
    nomad likes this.
  4. NQT08

    NQT08 Occasional commenter

    Mentioning capability before you have even started...
  5. bflat

    bflat New commenter

    I’ve been employed on UPS1 at my current school (Started in September) but therefore have to have an extra target on my appraisal which has to have whole school impact. I was allowed to choose my whole school project (am doing primary school outreach) and it’s not too onerous so far...
  6. HolyMahogany

    HolyMahogany Senior commenter

    Worth getting some union advice on this issue, yes it is normal for an HT to expect some additional contribution for UPS3, however there is no precise definition of what this means. 'substantial and sustained' ???? Different HT's will interpret this as they see fit. Some will want to load you with extras from cleaning the minibus to whole school responsibilities. Some may simply see this as a fair reward for years of extremely hard work, 60+ hours a week, loyalty and commitment to the education of the pupils at the school, developing skills and expertise etc. (probably not so many in this category)
    Sounds as if this HT wants you to contribute to the development of teaching and learning in this school. I assume that would involve things like running a working party, contributing to inset days, mentoring colleagues etc. On the whole I think this is a fair and reasonable contribution to ask of you, sharing good practice is a worthwhile part of the job and can be very enjoyable and beneficial to your own teaching.
    Obviously it depends on the time commitment, but hopefully not too arduous, after all this HT wants your skills and expertise in the classroom for the benefit of the pupils, not I presume exhausting yourself with additional workload.
    This is something that should really have been discussed at interview so you would know what was going to be expected of you before taking the post. Pity this HT has felt the need to go down the threats with a big stick approach. Are you telling us the whole story, have you been awkward and obstructive about this?
    As to capability, if you are doing a good job, achieving your targets for results, and looking after the welfare of pupils it would seem ridiculous to force you out of the job when you are achieving the most important targets.
    Do speak to your union, but I would also recommend trying to have a conversation with your HT to see what sort of accommodation you can achieve. After all I assume that you both want the same thing, happy and successful pupils?
  7. GreenTrees123

    GreenTrees123 Occasional commenter

    What’s expected of you has less to do with the banding than your head tbh.

    Some headteachers will expect all teaching staff to make an overall contribution to school life regardless of banding, while others won’t really care.

    You need to read the actual job description and speak to the head for clarification. Failing to fulfil the essential requirements of a job can easily result in capability.
    josepea, Curae and Pomza like this.
  8. Delerium

    Delerium New commenter

    @HolyMahogany The Head wasn’t present at interview. He had a chat with me afterwards. I had said in the interview in response to the “in five years time” question that I just wanted to teach in the classroom as part of what will be an outstanding dept. I don’t think he was threatening me so much as advising.

    If I take the UPS I must contribute significantly beyond the classroom, and risk the consequences of failure. If I go down to M6, then I can simply teach well.

    I’m not outraged or overly concerned, more surprised that this is how things are and wanted to check if it were so in other schools. Clearly, it is.
  9. HolyMahogany

    HolyMahogany Senior commenter

    OK , you started teaching in 1991, so you have 29 years in the pension fund. If you take a drop in salary to M6 you need to think about how this effects your pension. I assume that most of your pension will be available to you at 60. At present the best 3 years in the last 10 applies which should mean that if you work for lets say another 7 years you will still get the maximum benefit from this, even with a drop in current pay.
    Don't take my word on this, look at your pension statements carefully, and start planning for retirement. If you are happy with a drop in salary now, that is up to you. However it would be a real pity that having worked so hard to earn UPS3 status, to give it up and lose a chunk of your pension as a result.
  10. Curae

    Curae Star commenter

    I agree with this. Accept UPS3. Research could facinate and inspire you further. We need this not only for the sake of education but for our own sakes. Are you able to suggest and act on your suggestions or are they prescribed?

    The part about capability if you don't is a bit OTT and weird ... honest HT but what a thing to say at interview. We all know if you don't do as told it's hasta la vista baby :rolleyes:
    agathamorse and HolyMahogany like this.
  11. Ohwell

    Ohwell New commenter

    I would definitely not go down from UPS3. You've earned that! And actually for all that experience you are well worth. In fact, you are underpaid. Don't feel you don't have a right to it.
    josepea, tenpast7, hamcguin and 3 others like this.
  12. caterpillartobutterfly

    caterpillartobutterfly Star commenter

    Is this normal in schools these days?????
    Absolutely take the UPS3 and then worry about objecting to capability later.
    Research and feeding back could just be a quick skim of a TES article and elaborating on it, adding your own spin in a staff meeting.
    You should be both!
  13. Curae

    Curae Star commenter

    Sometimes it's like there's a force out there ... a really weird one .... trying brainwash teachers further into thinking they are not worth their salary. Don't you ever think that again !
  14. hhhh

    hhhh Lead commenter

    Completely agree-when did it become normal to mention capability at interview? In the past, experienced teachers would naturally mentor and do a bit extra for the school (it wasn't a problem because everyone focused on what was important, rather than spending lots of time on unnecessary tick-box exercises as all teachers do now). A couple of decades ago my then line-manager said the new PM and payscales would only bring trouble...
  15. install

    install Star commenter

    Union. But as has been said - grab the money. Do not be intimidated by threats from anyone that it will be taken away. Just go with the flow.
    Curae and HolyMahogany like this.
  16. GreenTrees123

    GreenTrees123 Occasional commenter

    I’m not sure why a role with a significantly higher salary having different responsibilities to a role with a smaller salary should be such an outrage.
  17. TheOracleAtDelphi

    TheOracleAtDelphi Established commenter

    Well I do know of one head who was a friend of one of the candidates so recused themselves (or whatever the teacher equivalent is) from the entire interview process so I guess it could be some kind of similar situation...
    nomad likes this.
  18. sbkrobson

    sbkrobson Star commenter

    I'd call it a realism and a kindness, knowing what can otherwise happen to a UPS teacher who suddenly falls under a radar.
    Swap that underhand career wrecker for less pay and responsibility.
    Make it a choice.
    No blame attached.
    Cards on the table.
    nomad likes this.
  19. mrkeys

    mrkeys Occasional commenter

    Was UPS3 in a PRU for the last 7 years of my career.
    HT in last few years did everything she could to undermine and cause me stress.
    Did not work.
    Saw it out until I took early retirement.
    UPS3 is now a target on your back.
    Education is no longer a caring profession looking after students and staff.
    It is all about cutting expenditure on staff.
    And all about employing more SLT.
    Been retired over 5 years. No regrets only wish I had challenged previous HT more.
    She was so useless.
  20. HolyMahogany

    HolyMahogany Senior commenter

    Problem is that UPS grades should not be seen as part of the salary package for a classroom teacher. You have to jump through too many hoops for it in too many schools. It has become more of a TLR point with HT's expecting far more than, experience, expertise and excellent teaching from staff on the UPS grades. This means that young people going into the job need to understand that the real ceiling for a teachers salary is M6. How does this rate of pay compare to other graduate careers? Well you won't be buying property any time soon.
    Of course there is no reason the OP should not negotiate. Depends on their circumstances.
    I bet / hope there are Physics teachers who get outstanding results every year who claim their UPS3 grade and then just laugh in the face of anyone who suggests that they should be doing anything other than teach for it.

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