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Unqualified teachers in the classroom, a real worry

Discussion in 'Secondary' started by SarahB101, Jun 9, 2008.

  1. Not one of the ta's in my school, or the cover supervisors, has a degree.
  2. You do not need a degree to be an LSA or a TA.
    Now! What does LSA stand for ?
    What does TA stand for ?

    Answer : Teachers

    I am sure thats what they stand for, at least thats what they seem to stand for in about every school i have been a supply in.
  3. Come to think of it LSA's and TA's don't even need QTS.

    And who has been on strike recently for more pay.

    Come on all you Qualified Teachers out there. What the hell is going on?

    Time for a strike I think?

    Perhaps not, our jobs will go for sure.
  4. I am an NQT who has recently completed a GTP having worked as a Cover Supervisor for 2 years before training. I graduated with a 1st Class Honours (English and History) all of this while having 2 children (both of whom were under the age of 5 when I began my degree). At no point when I was working as a Cover Supervisor did I think it was my job to criticise my qualified colleagues! Having struggled to gain the necessary qualifications I find it frustrating that people dismiss my qualification so easily!

    I worked extremely hard to get my QTS and I find it hilarious that anyone could compare this to the HLTA!!! My cousin has recently gained this qualification in a term, with NO degree, NO 3000 word assigments, NO observations, need I go on?? Surely the 'A' on the end of TA means Assistant? I passed the course with outstanding overall. I couldn't have done this however without the support of my QUALIFIED mentor and departmental staff!!!!!

    Apologoes for any anomalies in my SPAG.
  5. Ooops! Typing error - apologies - not apologoes x
  6. How about this one -

    From September, I am having my A-level teaching hours halved so that I have more time to get on with my "other" role that is becoming increasingly time-consuming. The other half of the A-level classes are formally timetabled to be delivered by the Head Science Technician, including a new Curriculum 2008 unit at AS and a complete unit at A2. He's a great guy, and I really hope he does well, but he has yet to complete his degree in the subject and is still awaiting the judgement on his HLTA application.

    Now - when I discussed his status with a member of SLT including things like the amount of support he should be given I was told, and I quote, "to treat him as a fully-qualified teacher". I was told that I should not be spending time working with him or assisting him.

    My Head of Faculty later told me that we were NOT to share the teaching of units as he wants to be able to see who gets the better results. Well, he actually said that he wants to be able to define how effective he is in teaching these classes for future career developments, but I feel that there are plenty of ways of assessing these things even if a class is shared.

    So - he'll be on his own next term, on the orders of those higher up, with sole responsibility for two full units of AS/A2 - including the development of a scheme of work for the AS course, and I've effectively been told to mind my own business...
  7. September should be interesting. Locally, every secondary school will have at least two Cover Supervisors where most previously had just one or none.

    Given the number of jobs advertised and still being advertised, this is a nationwide phenomena.

    The impact on supply will be massive. Several schools have already declared an end to the use of supply teachers and short term and day to day work will be very much reduced. Longer term work is likely to go the same way as these people become experienced and able to teach subjects. Realistically, long tern supply teachers will be those who don't need the day to day supply.

    I made an enquiry about a Cover Supervisor vacancy recently. The school has attracted more than a dozen applicants, all qualified teachers. This is likely to be the route into education for an increasing number of teachers.

  8. I also have children of my own and would not be happy to know that they were being taught by unqualified teachers. I can say this because having been a Cover Supervisor myself, before training as a teacher, I did not have the skills required to do the children in my classroom justice!

    It might only be a year of training but I have learned SO much!! It seems to be the assumption that a degree in your specialist subject is enough - but it really isn't. I also work in a school that has had 2 unqualified teachers in Core subjects last year - the behaviour of those classes and the results go to show that that qualification certainly means something!!!!

    No, I am not getting on my high horse now I have qualified - I recognise that Cover Supervisor is not an easy role. I cannot believe, Suburban, that your school is willing to use those classses as guinea pigs in a very dangerous (results wise) experiment! I'm glad it's not my kids - mind you - would I even know??
  9. Re coronel's info on clover supervisors and the previous poster whose school is asking the head science technician to teach A-level classes:

    I am abosutely appalled at the situations you describe for a few reasons:

    1. That this unqualified technician is being asked to teach A-level Science as a 'test' of who produces the best results. For goodness sake, students are not subjects, their people who deserve the best that we can give them (which means fully qualified and knowledgeable subject teachers) not guineapigs! This policy is playing russian roulette with their futures. I hope that the parents of students who miss out on uni places complain loudly to the school, if the results turn out to be dire!

    2. That schools can wiggle out of the law which says that no-one without QTS should be allowed to teach in a school for a long-period of time by claiming that cover supervisors supervise rather than teach (as they're responsible adults, it's ok for unqualified people to cover classes). The only difference that I can see is that cover supervisors (as decribed in the link) are not requied to plan lessons. If that's the only distinction between a supervisor and a teacher, what a joke!

    3. That I have a PGCE, degree in Psychology and experience of teaching the subject at A-Level and beyond, yet I have to jump through hoops to be recognised as a 'qualified' and experienced teacher to work in a school 6th form when we've got one school asking qualified teachers to treat a head technician as a qualified science teacher even though this person (very capable I'm sure) has no teacher qualifications or even a HLTA one. If I'd known that that was all I had to do to switch to teaching from a college to a school 6th form, I'd have asked my schools to employ me as a cover supervisor for the Psychology department instead and not bother trying to get QTS!

    Unbelievable! Also, I thought people without any teaching qualifications at all had to be supervised by a QTS teacher if they did any teaching in a school?
  10. Sorry for the SPG errors. E.g. their should be they're.
  11. Busimiss

    Busimiss New commenter

    Whats the problem?!? If you read many of the blogs from the "professional...good at my job...really know my subject" QTs, most spend their time complaining that they don't actually "teach" just "crowd or behaviour manage". If so, why can't a unqualified teacher who can manage student behaviour work in a school....

    By the way I have a good degree, Post Compulsory qualification, mature with many years non-education management experience and love my job. The HT recognises and rewards my Unqualified status by additional awards. If I wanted to train, I would but I like the flexibility and do not want to become one of the grade/status obsessed whingers who do contemporary education no favours....
  12. I would have htought that we do contemporary education a huge favour by spending time becoming qualified to teach them to the standard that they deserve!! You are right, some teachers do complain about the behaviour, crowd control etc. Everyone, even you I am sure, has off days! My brother is an 'Advanced Skills' teacher and has been judged 3 times as outstanding by Ofsted - but he has cause to comlain sometimes. If you care so much about the children that you teach you would do them the honour of training in your profession surely??

    Nobody is saying that you can't work in a school but it is unfair on the kids (and their parents) for them to have someone who is unqualified on a long term basis. But that is only my opinion. I am not doubting that you are good at what you do but whether you realise it or not your comments belittle all of the hard work that it takes to qualify!
  13. Sorry "thought"
  14. Busimiss

    Busimiss New commenter

    Becky of course everyone has the right to complain but I have worked in the commercial world for over 20 years and have never heard so much negativity as I have in school staffrooms or meetings. The world has changed, students and school management now need broader skills that the general teaching qualifications offer. Of course, it is important that I can offer my students professionalism, this I do, achieving good and improving results each year. If I felt that I could not offer my colleagues and more importantly the students this, then I would seek employment elsewhere. I am also speaking as a parent of two teenagers, who have varying experiences of education. One of the reasons I decided to change professions, was due to the very poor teaching I observed, albeit from a minority of teachers who found children a chore, openingly admitting they only took on the job as a last resort to pay off their student loans and showed no enthusiasm for their 'profession'. Maybe the problem lies with the limited curriculum offered by the teaching colleges but the status quo will haveto change if we are to improve standards and the skills, attitudes for our future competitiveness in the global economy...
  15. I personaly think you are talking nonsense. A piece of paper does not mean that you are adequate in the classroom and I myself have met many a qualified teacher who could not teach productively.TAs, in most cases, are more suited to the classroom as they have worked with children on a one to one basis.People forget that teaching is not always about simply knowing, but being able to teach students what you know.
  16. Some of you on here are missing the point.

    I'm not saying that unqualifed teachers can't do a good job. I should know because I've been working as one for the last 6 months. What I am saying is that I find it unbelievable that I have to 'prove' that I am qualified to teach in a school despite my experience, teaching qualifications etc because of the law if I want to stay there and have equal pay and status to other teachers etc, while at the same time, we've got at least one school handing over A-level Science classes to a mmember of non-teaching staff that is supposed to be treated as a qualified teacher!

    I orginally had no intention to work in a school because my interest is in post 16 ecucation, so for me this wasn't an issue. However, I have had to change this decision due to recent changes to ecuational policy (such as the increased leaving age) which has affected my career prospects. So, sausalito, I'm not 'being negative' about teaching, I'm merely pointing out that there seems to be one rule for FE teachers coming into school teaching and another rule for non teaching staff, such as cover supervisors. Or to put it another way, you say that you've been given awards for having a higher standard of education than some teachers with QTS (I'm paid as an unqualifed instrutor in a school and have been given no awards for my degree, PGCE, experience as examiner and experience of teaching at HE level). Would you object if you were one day told that they and your job would be withdrawn within a few months and given to someone who isn't as educated or experienced as you because you don't have QTS? If yes, perhaps you'll then understand why I and others on here are complaining about the hypocrisy of some people's chosen interpretation of the current law with regard to school teaching.
  17. I do agree with the OP about the number of unqualified teachers working in schools, however, as someone who worked as an unqualified teacher last year, finding placement for GTP this year has been a nightmare, so much so that I had to withdraw from my DRB because due to numerous factors ranging from no spare cash and OFSTED, I am now back to square one. I have no desire to return to the classroom until I get QTS. I believe that the professional element of training, covering items such as classroom management, planning etc are vital. We may be able to teach the curriculum, but without the basics and being thrown into the deep end without these is wrong.

    What makes me laugh (otherwise I would cry), in the region I am based in, Music is a shortage subject.

  18. "TAs, in most cases, are more suited to the classroom as they have worked with children on a one to one basis"

    ??????????? Ignoring the massive generalisation about all TAs for a second, experience of working 1:1 with a child is not the same as teaching a whole class and cannot be construed an adequate preparatory experience for teaching a whole class.

    Teaching is not just about standing in front of the class and delivering pre-prepared lesson plan. It's about differentiating and extending, building on prior knowledge, ironing out misconceptions in learning, recognising when the government scheme of work is rubbish and being able to deliver a range of lessons on the same topic to the same class at the same time because inevitably your class will comprise learners with a wide wide range of ability.

    In my role as an EP I spend much time working closely with TAs and LSAs who support children 1:1. I frequently encounter people working in TA and LSA roles who feel they have are in charge of the 'statemented' child's learning and not the class teacher.

    I frequently encounter people with inadequate standards of literacy and numeracy modelling incorrect work to these kids (obviously this does not apply to everyone in a TA / LSA role!!).

    However, it is for these reasons we need to have qualified, professionals filling the role of teacher trained to an appropriate standard. I wouldn't allow an unqualified dentist take out my teeth and wouldn't allow an unqualified teacher teach my kids.

    *People forget that teaching is not always about simply knowing, but being able to teach students what you know.*

    Couldn't agree more, but that is why we have initial teacher training programmes - to learn HOW to teach.
  19. Post 4 was pretty funny.

    You know the reader would be reading and not listening.

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