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Unqualified teachers in the classroom, a real worry

Discussion in 'Secondary' started by SarahB101, Jun 9, 2008.

  1. No ellie22, I'm merely obeying the law which states that as I do not have QTS, I can only teach in a school as an unqualified instructor for a short-period of time. Moreover, you'll see if you reread my posts that I already have a teaching qualififcation, so that I can stay in my new school on a permanent basis. However, my qualification isn't recognised in schools which is why I'm paid as an unqualified instructor! This is why I've applied for a course that will lead to QTS.

    By the way, far from being mad, I'm being sensible because my new school has told me that when I gain QTS (probably in 2 years time), I will be paid as a secondary school teacher who has been teaching for 5 years which will probably be more than I would have been paid as an FE teacher for that period of time. I.e. My FE experience will rightly count as well.
  2. I have QTS but cannot get a teaching post. I have tried many times through application forms over the past ten years. I gained employment as a lecturer at the City of Bath college only to be made redundant. I worked at the University of the West of England for seven years. And now for the past two years I have been working as a supply.

    I have a friend who is an LSA who tells everyone that she is a teacher and has been planning and taking English Lessons.

    I get fed up with the ammount of cover supervisors
    in all the schools I have worked in (unqualified).

    No wonder the kids are taking over the rule of the schools.

    what is the role of an LSA ? are they aloud to teach.

    Why do we need TAs ?

    All the money the government have spent creating these positions it is no wonder so many teachers are walking away. I expect there will be many police men/women walking away from their jobs next due to the new role created as their understudy (forgot what they are called).

    The government is dumming down professional positions. Lower salaries/no qualifications.

    End result - more trouble in schools and more trouble on the streets.

    Job for the union ! And by the way, can LSAs be members of the Teaching union ?

    I have been told that LSAs can but me with QTS working as a supply cannot.
  3. I have QTS. Therefore, apparently, I can be expected to teach anything.

    I have "taught" Science, which is absolutely not my subject, and could not have survived it without the help of the support staff.

    When I have to cover a lesson in a practical subject - e.g. Tech - I am dependent on the support staff.

    In secondary, I think subject knowledge, whether acquired through study for a degree, or through practical experience, is paramount. (And TAs should not have their workload increased as a consequence of the ignorance of the teacher).

    Some unqualified teachers, according to their training and/or experience, could teach Science far better than I ever could.
  4. Post 63:
    "No wonder the kids are taking over the rule of the schools.

    what is the role of an LSA ? are they aloud to teach.

    Why do we need TAs "

    To answer the last question first - inclusion.

    There are many more children in mainstream schools that wouldn't have been there not so long ago. You try asking a teacher to take a class without support with the mix of needs there are these days. They soon complain if they lose TA support!

    The role of an LSA? - what ever the school management decides, and yes, sometimes that does entail leading whole classes. Some do it willingly, some not so, but there is an "any other duties" clause in the job decriptions that means TAs/LSAs can be asked/told to do almost ANYTHING. The rights and wrongs of this are frequently and hotly debated.

    Kids taking over the rule of schools? In some places, yes. The reasons for this can not be placed on the use of cover supervisors. The buck stops with the management. If it's poor, so will the behaviour be in the school.

    At the risk of being shot down in flames, I am a TA (have just met the HLTA standards - virtually the same as those for teachers) and I do take some Science (Secondary) classes. I plan with the class teacher for their absence. They ask for me to do it. I know the curriculum very well. I am not a teacher, and never describe myself as one, but I can successfully cover these lessons, moving students learning on. I am able to do this as I have several years experience observing good (and otherwise) teaching practice across all ages and all curriculum areas. I will be putting this to good use and moving onto a PGCE when I complete my Physics degree.

    The teachers are confident in my knowledge base and classroom practise. If I take their class they know the work will be done and the students learning will progress without errors and misconceptions.

    I have a similar good grounding in Maths, which is utilised.

    There are many very professional cover supervisors who have qualifications (academic and otherwise) and training relevant to their job. Some have not. Again, the fault lies with the management team that employs them.

  5. community liason officers.
    The police have sorted that one out, you need to do that job first before you can apply to the police!
    How would you feel about the government making potential teachers to spend a year as a TA first?
  6. not_so - you hit the nail on the head!

    I have been that support staff helping supply/cover teacher through a lesson! QTS is to teach ANYTHING!

    The English teacher asked to cover top set Y11 earlier this year just passed me the cover lesson plan and asked me if I would do it as they didn't have a clue (their words)!
  7. I think it would be a good idea to become a TA as an NQT(could be your NQT year} for at least a year.
    This would ensure qualified teachers gain employment and would ensure qualified staff are in the classroom.

    The TA(NQT) could then, with the support of the class room teacher, plan, take and mark lessons and be observed continuously with feed back. At leaast, if the TA is left on their own, parents would not have to worry their child is left with some one who is not qualified.
  8. Ref:- Martini95

    QTS is in fact to enable teachers to teach their subjest specialism professionally, that is to say that any one with a degree in their field need to gain QTS before they can teach it. This is unlike some TA's and LSA's, who, without subject specialism
    and without QTS, believe they can teach anything.
  9. Martini95 says "At the risk of being shot down in flames, I am a TA (have just met the HLTA standards - virtually the same as those for teachers) and I do take some Science (Secondary) classes."

    Can I be the 'fire starter' here? I am not putting your HTLA down, in fact congratulations in meeting the HTLA status! But, from what I have witnessed it is nowhere near the same quality (maybe that's not what I mean?) as QTS. Here are a few facts as I have seen them.

    My friend has just gained HTLA, her required perquisite education was C or above GCSE in English and maths. She had to teach three lessons (casually observed by mentor), proof of meeting standards (which are similar to/same as some of the QTS standards) and had an assessor come in for a morning to speak to various people along with her, but did not observe her teaching. The whole HTLA process took half a term.

    Contrast with this another friend who took the GTP route to QTS, her perquisite qualifications were C or above English, maths and science and a relevant degree with a minimum of a second class honours. She had to plan, present, evaluate and show progression in numerous lessons taken over a complete school year with more than ten observed lessons; some observed by an LEA advisor. Then there were essays to prove knowledge of pedagogy, learning styles and SEN. Also, of course - proof of meeting QTS standards during a grilling day of two observed lessons and questioning by the assessor who also spoke to various people at the school. This friend now has to undergo an induction year.

    PGCE and BEd routes into teaching are different to each other and the GTP in their presentation, but the requirements of observed lessons, knowledge and the final assessment are equally intense.

    Do you still believe HTLA is the same as QTS martini95?

    I am also concerned that you take science classes. Does that include practical classes? If so I think your head teacher and the head of science are either very brave or naive, because if there is an accident they could find themselves in very deep water!
  10. If teachers want to be regarded as professionals then they must go through the whole degree then teaching certificate of some sort.

    I wouldn't want to be examined by someone who would like to be a doctor but hasn't been trained and likes the idea of checking out peoples' bits; and I wouldn't want to be flown to my favourite holiday destination by someone who is an expert at kite flying but hasn't had any training in an aircraft!!
  11. Skills are very important when you teach someone. In teaching, unlike any other profession, it is a myth to think that a qualified teacher always know the job because they have a PGCE. Yes, if a dentist is qualified
    we would expect that dentist to know how to fill teeth properly.
    I was an unqualified teacher for 22 years, during which time my students gain very high grades at GCSE and A level.

    I am now a qualified teacher. I have worked with at least 10 teachers over the period of 25 years and in the
    the last 8 years not one knew how to teach A level and I had to advise them. Even the mentors on my PGCE. One of my high school mentors wanted me to stay after school to teach her how to mark GCSE and A level because she had just come from a middle school and never taught it.
    Yes, there are a lot of things you learn through doing a PGCE. Ageism is one on them, and another is how far away education has come from getting down to getting students through their exams. All these new inexperienced teachers are coming out of Uni without a clue to the strateges of getting students through exams.

    If I sent my child
  12. If I sent my child my child on a sailing course I would want someone who had sufficient skills and experience wouldn't you?
  13. I have found that a number of PGCE students say that they can get through the course by 'winging it'. They do, get NQT but (last year 14 students on course 6 complete, most of the winging it clan), other leave as feel not give students the lessons they need?.

    I found that a number of the 'Unqualified teachers are PGCE 'dropouts', and I would rather that my children get lessons from them than some NQT. Notice some, as some NQT are fantastic.

    Good night

  14. Sorry for spelling mistakes. getting very tired and typing with one eye open and one eye shut!

    I should add that there are some very excellent new teachers coming into the profession and the second mentor I had was excellent.

    The PGCE course I did was also excellent.

    I'm specifically talking about skills. For example wouldn't it be great to be taught science by a volcanoligist, someone from industry with hands on experience? I agree it's not just about the subject, there are also issues of health and safety and methods of putting the subject across and understanding of children with SEN ec, so training is important no denying that fact.
  15. Is someone more interested in ' career progression' or someone that love's their subject more important too a parent for their child?

  16. I would say the latter Wansbeck wouldn't you. But sometimes they can go hand in hand can't they?
  17. This is what i wrote in another thread.

    I have worked with some right "wind bags" in my time!!
    Very nice wind bags i might add. The proof is in the pudding when the kids get their exam results back!

    When I went on the courses run by magicClass, I reserved my judgment until trying the methods out and discussing the real concrete progress the students had made. I was pleasantly surprised to discover that this
    person's method worked extremely well for myself and more importantly the children, so that was a course worth it's weight in gold for me. As I said proof is in the pudding.
  18. Malaguena

    Malaguena New commenter

    RE: "In the past 8 years not one of them could teach A Level and needed me to advise them".

    Really? In what way? Do you mean that their subject knowledge was not up to scratch? According to you anyway? I have an upper second, as did most of the people on my PGCE and I would hope that anyone with a decent degree can teach their subject content to A Level. If they can't, quite right, they shouldn't be teaching secondary. However, there is a lot more to teaching than just subject knowledge, which is what professional training attempts to prepare you for.

    As for teachers "moving away from teaching children how to get through exams", another thread on another forum points out that that is exactly the focus of teaching these days and that children end up being able to regurgitate past exam questions without knowing much about the subject at all.

    As I already pointed out Chorale, there is no point in getting down to the personal, individual teacher level. I am sure that you are a very good teacher and training you has not affected your oh-so-wonderful teaching skills one jot. (I bet you were a joy on your PGCE, telling your subject tutors that they didn't know what they were doing). The point is, if we want to keep any kind of "professionalism" in our profession, we have to insist that people in it are holders of the appropriate qualifications and are meeting certain standards.

    The inadequecies of PGCE are another story and do not affect the basic requirement of needing to have a professional qualification in the first place.
  19. One of the main aspects of being a teacher is to get good results for the students, it isn't however, the only one. I believe the PGCE prepared me very well, especially how 'to be' around young people. I sometimes see/hear unprofessional language, behaviour from some unqualifieds and then realise why they haven't been accepted on the GTTP despite their sometimes excellent results.
  20. Hi I'm a TA and have been responsible on a number of occasions to teach 8 special needs children. I have found the last time I taught the class while the teacher was off for 7 weeks that the classroom rum smoother and that in fact the children progressed a great deal throughout those 7 weeks. Now I know all teacher are not as rubbish as the one I have had the 'pleasure' to work with this year but from the experience that I have had with the teacher I work with is the pupils did better with me and another strong TA.

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