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'Unlimited resits for pre-entry tests are a step forward – but are the tests needed?

Discussion in 'Education news' started by TES_Rosaline, Feb 12, 2018.

  1. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    How many unqualified teachers teach Drama & PE?
  2. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    I know one of each, plus an art teacher too.

    Can't tell you about all of the other 23,997 I'm afraid.

    But I do know for few HTs who have hired UQTs to teach more specialist/niche/creative/non-core (choose whichever word enrages you least) subjects, while they are also studying for QTS.
  3. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Of these 600,000 UQT the "many" you know, then, are three. Right.

    While they are cheaper than qualified teachers and until they are not as cheap as the next round of otherwise unemployable (presumed) graduates.
  4. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    600,000 UQT?

    Thought you asked specifically how many unqualified PE and Drama teachers I knew...
  5. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Lead commenter

    Think of how many unqualified teachers there are in higher education! ;)
  6. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    You are right. I intended 24,000.

    Given your earlier statistic of 5% I assumed you were making a further claim to statistical knowledge. Technically 0.000125 unqualified teachers is a statistic but I was hoping for something which was not limited to people you can name off the top of your head.
  7. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    They teach in higher education?
    Stiltskin likes this.
  8. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    My claim is taken from the workforce census, which anybody can view.

    What type of statistic/s were you hoping for?
  9. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    Chill man, I did not say that first was a false claim, although the second is less impressive.

    The literal type.
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  10. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    You may (or perhaps may not) like this one...


    One could interpret this data as demonstrating that schools are employing, on an unqualified basis, a proportionally high volume of PE teachers, who are also studying to attain QTS.

    Alternatively, one could interpret it rather differently....The choice is yours.

    I found a nice one about a correlation between fish-finger consumption and outcomes at GCSE I could show you instead...
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  11. drek

    drek Lead commenter

    I can see a link between the high number of PE teachers and their domination of SLT roles in my school not to mention subject conversion in schools now.........

    There are one or two schools who are asking for a teacher of PE and Science two for the price of one sort of thing. I wonder if they are getting applicants.

    And at my old school they asked some PE staff to cover shortages in Science. Before the 2016 changes to the curriculum I think many found it doable but the new curriculum is pretty challenging for a few......not content wise so much as time wise In terms of planning.
  12. Pomza

    Pomza Star commenter

    This suggests that you are right @drek. Zillions of new PE teachers, 94% of which got themselves a job, but there can't be that amount of vacancies just teaching PE...

    Last edited: Feb 14, 2018
  13. baxterbasics

    baxterbasics Senior commenter

    So for a low paid graduate job like teaching, the PGCE candidate has to show prior evidence of recently being in a school (observing or volunteering), apply, pass an interview, pass three different skills tests, have GCSE maths and English, pass a PGCE/QTS, be put on probation for a year as an NQT, and then be effectively monitored constantly for the rest of his/ her career.

    But on the other hand, it is possible to be a teacher or run a school with no teaching qualifications.

    Or apply for the graduate management job at Liddl where the starting salary is £40k.

    None of it makes any sense at all.
  14. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    No, they couldn't. Not by a long chalk. Recruitment to PE ITT exceeds target and this table says nothing about schools' recruitment.

    There is no choice. That table does not say or imply what you suggest.

    You arrived here but decided to post anyway?
  15. MrMedia

    MrMedia Star commenter

    My point is always - if they could be a decent teacher without any training, guess how good they could be with training. All they are doing is taking those starting at a higher entry point and removing their training. Before, these people would become amazing teachers at the end of the PGCE, not just decent teachers. So many times I've had unqualified teachers on the course saying: I thought I was a good teacher and now (after doing a PGCE) I realise that I've been inflicting lower standards on my pupils for the last five years. I should have trained straight away.
    Pomza, Stiltskin and Gsr25 like this.
  16. Stiltskin

    Stiltskin Lead commenter

    I see it as the difference between teaching being a craft or a profession. If it's the later then they need the training to cover ensure they have good academic and professional knowledge and the ability to practice applying it.

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