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Discussion in 'Scotland - education news' started by polmac, Jan 30, 2012.

  1. polmac

    polmac New commenter

    I'm secondary trained and worked in secondary for long time. Now working as LS in primary. Would it be the SSTA or the SPTA union that I should join?
  2. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    You fail to mention the EIS. Wonder why? (Whistle!). If you are working in primary now then the SPTA is the one to go for. There is no link between the two unions you mention by the way.
  3. In the primary schools I have worked in, EIS has been the only union in evidence.
  4. piglet171

    piglet171 New commenter

  5. The NASUWT is seeing an increase in Scottish teachers.
  6. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    Indeed. That's the problem. The EIS has a membership base in Primary and to some extent in secondary which, up to now, has been quiescent and unquestioning. It's what allowed the EIS leadership to sell out supply teachers, Chartered Teachers and conserved post holders last |Spring.

    It's time that changed. Secondary teachers have an alternative: SSTA. Primary colleagues need an alternative also.
  7. If you have primary registration with GTCS, then you would be able to opt for SPTA. If not, contact the SSTA directly.
  8. As a Secondary teacher of some 15 years teaching experience in quite a few schools, now in Scotland I would strongly recommend the NASUWT, they are quick to help and there are training/cpd opportunities with them that we are jut not getting in School. David [​IMG]
  9. The reason there are people still in the EIS is because they still wield a vast amount of power. The other unions carp on but provide very little substance - at least in my experience, which is not inconsiderable.
    I am certainly not a fan of some of the actions of the EIS recently but I say so loud and long within the union and seek to change its direction for the benefit of members of all unions. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and moan and commentate. Far more difficult to challenge and strive for positive action because that can be frustrating and hard. In my school people have joined the EIS and left the other unions because day to day they have offered little in the way of support and protection.
    Admittedly a few were fooled by the sabre rattling of the SSTA which has said more and done less than the EIS. Leaving is easy. Staying and fighting takes a bit more.
  10. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    Username says it all!

    Done less than the EIS? Absolutely.

    SSTA refused to accept the sell out of supply teachers and is currently gathering evidence to use legal redress to challenge their unfair treatment as temporary workers. Why could the most powerful union on the planet NOT do this?

    SSTA refused to accept the ending of lifetime conservation of PTs as agreed under 21TP. It is currently supporting PTs in challenging employers (such as City of Edinburgh Council) who are reorganising promoted posts and (allegedly) fiddling the job sizing toolkit to do so. Why could the mighty EIS NOT do this?

    The argument of such apologists for the actions of the EIS leadership is always the same: biggest is best and might is right. Exactly the same arguments will be used to justify the next sell out over over McCormac and GTCS re-accreditation.
  11. socrates82

    socrates82 Occasional commenter

    The EIS leadership betrayed and abandoned its weakest members last year and shamefully collaborated in a disgusting and unjust attack (a 47% cut!) on the pay of these experienced professionals.Those EIS people who recommended acceptance of that should never be trusted again.Moreover, with their undemocratic block vote on the SNCT, they also ran roughshod over the wishes of the majority across the profession who voted 'No'.A totally shameful episode.
  12. ryeland

    ryeland New commenter

    Remaining in the EIS was unthinkable, how can I continue to finance an organisation which I foolishly trusted to look after my interests. I still struggle to think of a more shameful episode in the history of any trade union. They disgust me.
  13. Yyup - mainly because leadership at all levels asks members to be more involved but then insists any involvement must follow a very rigid pattern and squashes any voice that disagrees with the party line. The SSTA communicate with me and ask me to communicate with them. After a few years with the EIS, that in itself is a breath of fresh air.
  14. I always find when people resort to personal attacks they have a lack of real argument. The SSTA members on the teachers side of the SNCT sat quietly and abstained rather than vote against and then started talking big after the deal was done. Where was the refusal and the argument when it would have mattered? Democracy can be a real pain but many of us voted to censure the EIS executive and it was narrowly defeated, but we didn't throw our toys out of the pram and sulk.
    So how is being the SSTA going to prevent this sell-out? I agree that biggest is not always best but I still maintain that however big they talk the other unions will do not much more. As for NAS/UWT they are the biggest union south of the border. Do you want the pay and conditions of our English colleagues? They are the ones who negotiated them. So lets have reasoned argument and less sniping. If all the grumpy old Victor Meldrews had stayed in the EIS and fought we might not be having this conversation.
  15. The EIS communicate with me and I communticate with them. They don't always like what I have to say but I will keep on saying it. I agree that like all political organisations success is more sure if one spouts the wisdom of the moment, but I think you are being somewhat disingeuous to suggest that if you swam against the tide in the SSTA the results would be much different. Then again, if you are listened to by your union, will much change in the scheme of things other than you feeling a bit better about yourself?
  16. socrates82

    socrates82 Occasional commenter

    I don't believe this is an accurate assessment of events. The SSTA abstained in order to consult their membership.
    As I recall, they were always very much against the deal while the EIS leadership were talking utter b*llocks like "Vote YES and get a better deal for supply teachers."
    I also don't recall the SSTA Gen Sec issuing "hush hush" diktats to reps in order to stop them going against the party line.

    I do appreciate that many decent EIS people were unhappy with the SOD and told the leadership so, but I think those members who were abandoned and betrayed in such a spectacular and disgusting fashion cannot be blamed for no longer wishing to be part of a "union" which sold them and their families down the river.
  17. Dominie

    Dominie New commenter

    Personal attack? You chose your username. I chose Dominie for a reason. I assume you chose yours for a reason! I though dinosaurs had thicker skins?

    Ok. Here are the facts. SSTA negotiators turned up at Moray Place for a meeting of the teachers' side of the SNCT. When they arrived, they found that the EIS salaries com was still in session. They were kept waiting. An ominous sign. The EIS were discussing the new offer made to them by the SNP government and COSLA. The one which was cooked up (allegedly) at a meeting between the EIS President and Alex Salmond a few days previously.

    This was not the offer which the SSTA had balloted its members on. When the meeting of the SNCT teachers' side convened, the EIS announced that they would be recommending acceptance of the new offer to their members in a ballot. The SSTA reps were empowered to reject the old offer but had no power to accept the sell out. They therefore abstained which was the only thing they could do. The ballot held by the SSTA on the new offer resoundingly rejected it. When the new offer, sorry sell out, was tabled at the next meeting of the SNCT teachers' side, it was accepted by the EIS reps and rejected by the SSTA reps who formally their position in order to represent members who would be affected by the EIS sell out.

    The above account is from a person who was present at the meetings described. I am told that the EIS announcement of their sell out was greeted with incredulity. And no wonder. Days before, the EIS was urging its members to reject the local authority / Scottish Government deal and then did a complete somersault and accepted one which was different by the thickness of of a cigarette paper but which represented a shameful sell out of its supply teacher, Chartered Teacher and conserved secondary PT members.

    These are the facts. If you choose not to believe them then may I suggest you change your username to one incorporating "Ostrich", Far more appropriate even than even your current one.

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