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Unbelievable,Iam still in shock that a teacher would say such a thing!

Discussion in 'Workplace dilemmas' started by carntthink, Oct 19, 2015.

  1. carntthink

    carntthink New commenter

    A teacher who's been teaching for a year turned to me and said,Oblong group last year did the same.
    Oblong group are the lower ability children we are a year 3 class, oblong group abilities are 3 EAL children and Two children with dyslexia diagnosis and two more children just hitting national curriculum levels.I explained to the class teacher that the children did find the objective difficult so I asked if I could differentiate it so it met their needs.The teachers reply:: Oblong group last year managed it,so these should be able to manage it.I was shocked to hear or believe a teacher would say such a thing,last years oblong group were completely different children I said and furthermore not one of them was EAL.The teacher is using the exact planning but not changing it for lowers or even changing the planning for the higher abilities in maths and English the children aren't been challenged.
  2. RedQuilt

    RedQuilt Star commenter

    It's unclear from your post what your role is in this so I'm not sure what impact this has on your work. However, there are two possibilities - 1. The teacher believes this is the best way ahead for her pupils or 2. They're being a bit blinkered about the pupils abilities. Either way, if they have sole responsibility for planning and delivery of class content, and you're there in a support role, then she should be left to it. If there's a problem, as you seem to be indicating, then it'll be picked up via observations, paperwork audits etc.

    I might have got the wrong end of the stick though.
  3. drek

    drek Star commenter

    Can't understand your post. Earlier you said Oblong group has 3 EAL. Later on you say it had no EAL.
    Are you a long term support who has been overlooked for a route into teaching?
    Rhoswen77 likes this.
  4. RedQuilt

    RedQuilt Star commenter

    I think it was last year's oblong group that had no EAL, @drek .
  5. Morninglover

    Morninglover Star commenter

    If the OP is helping in the class, esp. those with EAAL, then there certainly is a problem, I'd say... :eek:
    DYNAMO67 likes this.
  6. Gsr25

    Gsr25 Occasional commenter

    Having read the OP again it seems to be that this years Oblong group is doing the same work as last years Oblong group yet the children in this years group have very different needs than last years. Last years had no EAL children this years does.
    So it sounds like the OP is worried that there is no differentiation for the group. If the OP is in fact support staff then I don't think it's really their place to question, that said TAs do have a very good insight as to what certain groups of children can manage as they may work with LAP groups more than the CT.
    I would say leave it, if there any any discrepancies then as previously said this will be picked up during observations and assessments.
  7. lizziescat

    lizziescat Star commenter

    So basically, With regard to a lesson, the teacher said that the planned work met the needs of the children in the class (I would hope s/he would think that). Why is this 'Unbelievable' and why are you 'Shocked s/he would say that. (I'd be more shocked if s/he didn't think it appropriate)

    You disagree with him/her. Is this what you find unbelievable and shocking? Why?

    A teacher and TA? or line manager? have different views on the appropriate work for a child - not that unusual I would say. Hardly Unbelievable or shocking.

    Are you asking for advice about what you should do about this perceived inappropriateness of the planning?

    I think you need to explain a bit more before anyone can comment appropriately.
    Rhoswen77 likes this.
  8. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    I decided to open this discussion after reading the hover-preview from the discussion list. I now find, unfortunately, that this is not a discussion about a teacher's use of that wonderful but obsolete term oblong but is instead only about tossing more teachers into the belly of that Moloch differentiation.
    Rhoswen77 and mark6243 like this.
  9. frustum

    frustum Star commenter

    Whether or not it's a TA's place to question the planning, it surely is their place, if they work with a group, to report back to the teacher where the group have struggled with the planned work and not achieved the objective.
    Gsr25 likes this.
  10. Vince_Ulam

    Vince_Ulam Star commenter

    They frequently believe this but the most unsuitable of them regard their charges like poodles with no learning potential whatsoever.
    Rhoswen77 likes this.
  11. lizziescat

    lizziescat Star commenter

    Everyday, common practice to report back to teacher.
    The teacher thought it was appropriate.It is not shocking or unbelievable though.

    It is unusual, however, to post this on a forum.

    I am awaiting OPs return to clarify the purpose of the post. We may then, with more information be able to offer advice. (if that is what is required)
  12. les25paul

    les25paul Star commenter

    I'm not sure why you are so shocked about this. It is not unusual to initially plan the level of lessons based on what previous cohorts have managed. This would be particularly so when you have a new teacher who has less experience to base anything on.

    As the teacher gets to know the group then they will will able to tailor lessons to individual needs. But bear in mind its still early into the school year and such reflection takes time. A TA can assist in this with feeding back out well or not individual students have coped with certain activities.
    Rhoswen77 and Vince_Ulam like this.
  13. snowyhead

    snowyhead Lead commenter

    Dear OP

    Just for future reference please try not to define groups of children by the moniker 'EAL', 'SEN' or for that matter 'G & T' (which in actual fact is two different categories gifted/talented).

    First and foremost they are children who happen to have been neatly labelled by your school. Having a first language that is not English does not automatically make you low ability. Likewise being labelled as 'dyslexic' does not decrease your cognitive abilities. Those children just need extra support to access the curriculum: such that you might provide for a disabled pupil. The only children I would be concerned about are the two working below the expected levels for their age. Why not be pro-active and plan some lessons for these two children that do meet their needs?

    Best wishes

  14. chelsea2

    chelsea2 Star commenter

    Gosh - I am shocked at some of the critical responses. If the OP is a TA (which it sounds like) in a primary setting, feedback to the class teacher is invaluable. CT need to know if their expectations are mismatched with what the children demonstrate they can do (we moan enough when SLT have unrealistic expectations of our pupils & us!) so they can modify for next time. The OP offered to differentiate to meet the children's needs.

    If that had happened in one of my lessons (which it did on occasion) I would welcome the feedback. Indeed, my TA would naturally modify the task / input / objective if it was clearly unsuitable to her group - whatever the group's ability / level of learning. And, no, the children were NOT treated as poodles with no learning potential. A good TA, like a good teacher, knows when to intervene, when to challenge and when to scaffold.
    Mrs_Hamilton likes this.
  15. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    You're shocked by the teacher lumping these kids in with last year's group and yet you're quite happy to lump the very disparate needs of "Oblong Group" together. It's the same judgement made on a different scale.

    And does anyone think calling ability groups by random names fools the kids and that they don't look around and know exactly whether they are the top, middle or bottom group?
    snowyhead likes this.
  16. snowyhead

    snowyhead Lead commenter

    You seem to have a misunderstanding of what a 'learning objective' is. Every child in the class is entitled to the same learning objective: it is the independent activity that needs to be differentiated so that they can work towards, meet or exceed it.

    See above.
    TEA2111 likes this.
  17. DaisysLot

    DaisysLot Senior commenter

    I'm shocked because I just realised I don't know the difference between an oblong and a rectangle… :confused:
  18. monicabilongame

    monicabilongame Star commenter

    Poodles are actually intelligent dogs. Now maybe a Labrador....
  19. banjouk

    banjouk Occasional commenter

    A lower ability group called oblong, as in a 2x6" shape :) Is it April 1st?

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