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UK universities in world top 200

Discussion in 'Education news' started by Middlemarch, Oct 1, 2015.

  1. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    It's interesting to look at the positions achieved by UK universities - and also note that some non-Russell group institutions achieve a higher position than some Russells.

    Does this affect - should it affect - the insistence by some (e.g. former education secretary Michael Gove) that the Russells should be the institutions young people should aim to join?

  2. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    I recall seeing something a while ago about the criteria of how they judge these places. There's some balance between research and teaching needed to get in the list. German universities do things in a different way to rest of the world for example, separating the two (I think) so don't get anywhere in the lists despite having world class facilities.

    It is biased towards the UK and US way of doing things.
    drek likes this.
  3. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    I'm sure, Mangleworzle; however, I'm interested in the views of those who either think the Russells are all the best institutions or who (like me) think it ain't necessarily so. I speak as someone who has attended 2 Russells and 3 former (because it doesn't exist any more) 1994 group universities.
    drek likes this.
  4. Morninglover

    Morninglover Lead commenter

    Elder child went to Durham a few years ago - wasn't Russell Group then - but still better than many which were. (It has since joined, I think). He'd say it was better than the one he is now a Postgrad at, for example, which has always been Russell Group....
  5. RedQuilt

    RedQuilt Star commenter

    I don't think they're necessarily the best places to study some subjects. When my eldest was in the process of applying we found that a non-RG university was ranked higher for her subject.
    I also went to 2 RG universities but I think that I chose wisely given my subject.
  6. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    Exactly my point, FolkFan. The 'Russell group universities are the only ones worth applying to' mantra from Gove and others is unhelpful, I think.
  7. emerald52

    emerald52 Star commenter

    Same as those who think the best measure of success is Oxbridge places. For some an apprenticeship makes more sense or a technical course at a non elite uni.
  8. Middlemarch

    Middlemarch Star commenter

    Lara mfl 05 likes this.
  9. lizziescat

    lizziescat Star commenter

    I once worked for a head who automatically appointed the Oxbridge candidate as the best candidate and despite some real catastrophes could never understand the problem
  10. Mangleworzle

    Mangleworzle Star commenter

    Horses for courses of course, the students who might consider an apprenticeship are unlikely to be the ones who are very able and academic. For the latter, a Russell group university would be a good starting point. I used to advise 6th formers to use the university league tables, choose their subject and then aim as high up the list that they could, bearing in mind that the research reputation is going to be pretty irrelevant for their degree.
  11. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    Wooo go St Andrews!

    Yeah I went there.
  12. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    Was there any royalty or was that after?
  13. lanokia

    lanokia Star commenter

    He was the year after... I did see his security... big men with guns and dogs.
  14. Lara mfl 05

    Lara mfl 05 Star commenter

    emerald52 said:
    @same as those who think the best measure of success is Oxbridge places. For some an apprenticeship makes more sense or a technical course at a non elite uni.@
    Middlemarch said 'Yup.'
    Arggh! :( Can't seem to use the multi-quote facility, but exactly my feelings. It depends on the student, subject and even perhaps one's place of education. I know I got into my Training College on the basis of the 'school I attended' (ie a Direct grant Grammar), though I was a scholarship student.
  15. GLsghost

    GLsghost Star commenter

    That's no longer the case, @Mangleworzle . Modern advanced apprenticeships offer an alternative and more cost-effective route into professions that were formerly only graduate entry.

    In law, the vocational CILEx route is an increasingly-attractive option in which graduates acquire practice rights similar to a solicitor. Law students acquire fees of £40k - £50k achieving LPC or BPTC and may then be faced with being unable to find a pupillage or training contract. They are no longer funded by the government and firms already reeling from the loss of Legal Aid contracts cannot afford to appoint them. CILEx students earn as they study and their employers pay the cost of study. New CILEx apprentices have their fees paid by the government.

    The 'Big Four' accountancy firms of PWC, KPMG, Deloitte and Ernst and Young, together with the National Audit Office take school-leaver apprentices to become Chartered Accountants, alongside their traditional graduate-entry.

    My son, whose A levels in Maths and Science would have earned him a place in most good universities, instead opted for an Advanced Apprenticeship with Astrium, the space and defence company. They are now funding a Masters. He has no debt.
  16. drek

    drek Star commenter

    If the Russell badge of honour is presented the same way that schools and teachers are declared outstanding, then the criteria is BS.
    In America it seems to be based on the percentage of students that get into graduate management schemes in sought after lucrative fields of employment.
    class based in the sense that if you are an Eton boy you automatically get officer status, but if you are a northern graduate, you start at the bottom and may be able to work your way up if benevolence is the order of the day?
  17. Eureka!

    Eureka! Lead commenter

    Leicester University's slogan is "elite not elitist". There is no end to the **** these places generate.
  18. mikeshaw

    mikeshaw Administrator Staff Member

    Interesting - @Middlemarch is right to draw attention to the Russell Group universities.

    Odd that they remain a metric used to judge schools' success at getting students into higher education, when several UK universities (University of St Andrews, Royal Holloway. Lancaster University, University of Sussex and University of East Anglia) performed better in the World Rankings than others that are part of the Russell Group. Plus many of the Russell Group ranked well behind certain universities outside the UK.

    Perhaps the measure should be universities in the top 150 in the Times Higher's World Rankings? Though I may only be suggesting that because I work in the same office as the people who make it...

  19. Flere-Imsaho

    Flere-Imsaho Star commenter

    It's all a lot of snobbery.
    Pick the university that does your chosen course well and is in a place where you would like to live. Hope you can afford it.

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