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True extent of situation in China

Discussion in 'Teaching abroad' started by 1FineDay, Apr 27, 2020.

  1. 1FineDay

    1FineDay New commenter

  2. RoadToRags

    RoadToRags New commenter

    Figures in China are political fiction. Sad that true numbers will never be known. Good to see some logical rebuttals like this coming out.
  3. T0nyGT

    T0nyGT Lead commenter

    There's no doubt at all that they're massively underreported. However, if they were really all that bad wouldn't the expats on the ground be noticing? I have friends in China who state that life has pretty much returned to normal. How would this be possible if the were battling a Europe style outbreak? Unless they've decided on a Sweden style herd plan
    colacao17 likes this.
  4. taiyah

    taiyah Occasional commenter

    Super Communist Country + a WHO general director who has a long history of corruption and continued fudging of medical statistics in Ethiopia...

    What do you get? The entire world grinding to a halt with so many deaths and job losses.

    The UK was right to delete China's "statistics" in all studies and comparisons.
  5. 1FineDay

    1FineDay New commenter

    I think you're being naive to think that in a complete lockdown people would 'notice' what's going on outside/in hospitals. I have absolutely no idea what is happening in the UK, because I am (like everyone else) confined to my home. I take the media's word that the hospital situation is under control, but I frankly haven't got a clue beyond a few clips aired on the news. The exact same is true in China. You are being naive to think that China have controlled their situation even remotely as they have stated. China seemed to suddenly go from responding late to the epidemic to very controlled lockdown, to almost no new cases a few weeks later. Has anything like that happened in any other country so far? No - which leads me to believe that it just doesn't work that way. A lockdown limits the damage done, but doesn't suddenly stop the virus in its tracks. Compare Italy and China's curves. Something is gravely wrong with the Chinese results.

    The people in China have no idea what is going on since the government carefully tailor and construct the news completely and utterly to their agenda. There could be 2-3 million cases for all we know, and expats still wouldn't have a clue since they are all stuck in their homes (or at least, have been for many months now) rendering them unreliable sources of news. Compare China (who responded late to the outbreak and then implemented strict lockdown measures) with other countries who responded with strict lockdown measures - Italy and Spain spring to mind; neither of those two countries experienced a sudden 'drop off' of cases and infections like the Chinese 'supposedly did'. The data is not just under-reported, but completely fabricated. I believe China and the United States are both over 1 million infections, with China further along the curve by now, of course.

    We just need countries to be as accurate with their data as possible so we can move forward with best practices. Ultimately, there is too much posturing and "we're better than you" with this virus response - China being the biggest victim to having to look 'efficient and in control'. It's playground stuff that's caused so much unnecessary death and economic cost. It is only a matter of time before the rest of the world begin to Shun and boycott China for this fiasco.
    Alice K and mermy like this.
  6. Mitochondria1

    Mitochondria1 Occasional commenter

    Oh great, another China bashing, conspiracy theory thread as the US and UK govts politicize a tragedy to score points against the Chinese.
    colacao17 likes this.
  7. gulfgolf

    gulfgolf Established commenter

    Of course expats would notice. They’d be getting sick like everyone else.
    colacao17 likes this.
  8. 1FineDay

    1FineDay New commenter

    Percentage of population who have contracted covid19 is still low. Very low.
  9. 1FineDay

    1FineDay New commenter

    No smoke without .
  10. clovispoint

    clovispoint Occasional commenter

    The virus outbreak was described as an "express elevator up and the staircase down" in all cases except China. Their numbers were flagged as too 'neat' from the start e.g. a neat 50% bump recently- why not 47% 51%, 15%? No outside agencies - not WHO, CDC, nobody- were allowed in or have yet to enter. The numbers are disbelieved by many in China and this has the Chinese government concerned. The problem for the CCP is that they have been raised on their own propaganda and have trouble understanding why people don't believe the propaganda. In China, you believe and do what the government tells you (the trouble here in Hong Kong has come from 'western influenced youth' not behaving as the CCP expects).

    The CCP's legitimacy stems from looking after the people- they have dropped the ball here so need to ensure that the numbers and narrative fit the party needs regardless of the truth.
    Alice K likes this.
  11. Booker_d

    Booker_d New commenter

    I know. The OP must have got lost on the way to their Facebook page and posted here by accident.

    Not really sure what this has to do with teaching.
    TusitalaH likes this.
  12. Booker_d

    Booker_d New commenter

    Exactly. Stories spread throughout expat and International communities like wildfire. Expats would either be getting sick or know of people or parents or from the local staff of people who have. It's a massive community.

    Perhaps people can keep their conspiracy theories for their social media pages in future ad we can get back to talking about teaching.
    TusitalaH and colacao17 like this.
  13. shakes1616

    shakes1616 Established commenter

    Swedes are self isolating and distancing just like in the UK according to reports from people there. It's just not enforced not that it is much in the UK much either. Lots of people in the UK are still travelling to work too by public transport. Uk has a denser population than Sweden. Demographics are different which may be why the UK has more deaths than Sweden. Still 2000 have died in Sweden in a month.
  14. moscowbore

    moscowbore Star commenter

    Can we just all accept that we will never know how many people got sick or died in China and move on with our lives?
    TusitalaH likes this.
  15. the hippo

    the hippo Lead commenter Community helper

    I agree with moscowbore.

    From the start, governments in France, Spain, Italy and the UK did not include the numbers of those who had died in care homes, hospices and in their own homes. Therefore it is not just the Chinese government's figures that are suspect. On top of that, there is probably a bit of a question mark whenever someone who already has a serious medical condition dies of the virus.
    TusitalaH and colacao17 like this.
  16. 1FineDay

    1FineDay New commenter

    This could be the start of political change in China - a very tentative first spark. No government is infinite, though many infantile.
  17. 1FineDay

    1FineDay New commenter

    Ok guys - point taken about the China bashing. But, it was an interesting article - at least, I thought.
    Alice K likes this.
  18. Helen-Back

    Helen-Back Occasional commenter

    Everything I've read leads me to believe the greater change will be in west in terms of monitoring the population and more intrusive survalence.
    abikuwait likes this.
  19. amysdad

    amysdad Established commenter

    One other point about China. It actually took a long time for cases to spread outside the Wuhan / Hubei area - so lockdowns in places like Beijing and Shanghai actually happened relatively early on in their curve. In addition, the lockdowns weren't quite like here - malls were still open, and it was much easier to switch to cashless delivery / online orders because of WeChat / Alipay / Meituan / Taobao, etc. Not to forget the fact that in China, if the government says to do something, people tend to do it, otherwise....
    ChaiLattePlease likes this.
  20. shakes1616

    shakes1616 Established commenter

    What are you trying to say? That it isn't the virus killing 40 000 Americans and 20 000 Brits and god knows how many SPanish, Italian and French people in one month? The whole reason for the lock down everywhere is to prevent people dying. If people/governments didn't mind others dying, there wouldn't be a lock down anywhere ad we would all go for immunity, if indeed most of us can even get immunity which we don['t know for sure yet.

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