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Transfering over to 11-18 / school

Discussion in 'Further Education' started by lollypink, Jul 28, 2009.

  1. Ok so I am going into my year 2 of Detls/Petls whatever its called in Sep 2009. I am going to see it out but I have actually realised I want to teach in a school. I realise its like an impossibility to just apel / transfer so I was wondering if anyone has retrained and if so how? Since I recieved full funding for this course and student laon etc would I be eligable for yet again more funding to do a PGCE starting sep 2010???!!
    Nightmare.. so fed of of studying!!!
    any advice welcomed!
  2. Ok so I am going into my year 2 of Detls/Petls whatever its called in Sep 2009. I am going to see it out but I have actually realised I want to teach in a school. I realise its like an impossibility to just apel / transfer so I was wondering if anyone has retrained and if so how? Since I recieved full funding for this course and student laon etc would I be eligable for yet again more funding to do a PGCE starting sep 2010???!!
    Nightmare.. so fed of of studying!!!
    any advice welcomed!
  3. Since no one else will have a go at this, I will. You do not say your subject or whether you have a degree. You dont say how much teaching experience you actually have either.
    Since you are doing the old 7407 route rather than the PGCE FE route , you might be able to get funded for a PGCE QTS - but I wouldnt count the chickens.
    The other route is to do a GTP - that will require a degree and a job in a school. It will also require that you have a degree by which you can teach a National Curriculum subject ( because you need to teach across two Key Stages at Secondary to get QTS. Thats the usual route from FE to school
    The problem is the FE PGCE hand even the old Cert Ed would have some currency in school and you would get a post as an unqualified teacher off the back of them and then be able to do a GTP ( in between two and five years time - because those are the rules - you need the teaching experience in secondary to get on a GTP from FE training) , your DTLLS is unlikely to have any recognition at all.
    If I were you, I would finish your current course and make enquiries about doing a schoolie PGCE next year and do that pronto. You may get that funded since you havent gone into year 2 of the G&G yet ( thats DTLLS) . If not maybe stick with your DTLLS ( I guess you have a job?) .
    Otherwise look for a job in a school and get on a GTP - or apply for a GTP from an ITT provider who finds suitable placements for GTP trainees.
    Check the funding.
    Can you transfer instead to a PGCE FE? The route to secondary teaching from there is long and tortuous but is more straightforward. You will find it easier to get a job as an unqualified teacher in a school with an FE PGCE and you will be able to access the GTP more easily. If you wait the five years, you could even do assessment only QTS ( or the rules may even have changed again by then!)
    By the way you will need a degree in a suitable subject, a National Curriculum subject to teach, GCSE maths English and Science grade C or above and pass the skills tests to get QTS. There are no short cuts or circumvents to that.
    I really need far more information to make any real assessment.
    Alternatively, stay put in FE.
  4. This poster is clearly not doing the 'old 7407' - as it has never been funded. PtTLLS/DtTLLS are equally component parts of all Cert Ed/PGCE programmes in further education. DtTLLS and a PGCE/Cert Ed (FE) are one and the same thing.
  5. That was my error. I misread the OP. They are silent on precisely what route they are doing.
    However, what I said still applies.
    They at this stage ( presuming they can meet the criteria for getting into school teaching) can either knock the current course on the head, apply for a PGCE ( QTS) and go down that route. ( as I understand it its the DTLLS course that has the maintenance grant, so unless they have received that already, the OP should be able to change). The issue is the funding because DTLLS or PGCE QTS, they will only be allowed one ITT maintenance grant. As I understand it currently its the DTLLS ( second year) that has the grant,
    If however, ( as might be the case) they have already had their grant or cannot get onto a PGCE (QTS) then they have little option but to stick with the Fe route and try and get onto a GTP by obtaining a school post as an unqualified teacher.
    The advice has to remain as it has always been - if possible always take a PGCE with QTS for it is always possible to move from school teaching to FE teaching with minimum difficulty in terms of recognised qualifications, whilst moving from FE to school is far more problematic because the FE teaching qualification is all but worthless outside of the FE sector.
    However, since you are such an expert Witchfinder, why didnt you answer the question instead of just posting to criticise me? This post has hung around for several days and you have been busy posting on other threads. Since you are so good, why not give this one an answer?

  6. I didn't criticise you - nowhere in my response was I critical of you, indeed I did not mention you. I simply stated fact.
    I only post in areas where I have expertise, I know little of the regulations governing ITT in schools and I don't wish to mislead others by expressing my (ill-informed) opinion as fact.
    Nice to know you have the time to monitor what and where I post, though you could probably find better things to do with that time.
  7. Witchfinder,
    In my experience it is the norm to acknowledge that if you quote someone , you are making comments in reference to them. You quoted me. Your comments therefore were in reference to me.
    As for monitoring your posting behaviour - you flatter yourself! I do not have that much interest. I do have time though because unlike those in FE I have lots of VERY VERY long holidays ( I finished for summer on 30th June) and lots of time to play TES fora because my work load is manageable. [​IMG]
    At least I gave the poster an answer. I am pretty sure I am correct in my understanding of how FE qualifications are viewed in schools . I am also pretty sure of the route that has to be taken to obtain qualified status in a school if you have FE qualifications - no matter how new or old those may be ( unless like me you were teaching before 1989 and have a degree that meets the 1999 statutory Instrument criteria which still stand).
    The OP asked how they might convert to school teaching and what re training they may have to do. Thats something I do know about. The only unknown for me here is the qualification base of the OP and whether their PTLLS course had carried an ITT grant ( as I said , under new rules, the maintenance grant is for one year only - DTLLS usually ). It may in fact therefore be possible with a good following wind and a bit of luck and exploration , for the OP to obtain funding for a PGCE with QTS if and only if they have not started DTLLS and have not had an ITT grant already.
    It might also be to their advantage in that situation to explore a PGCE with QTS sooner rather than after completing FE training as following any completion of an FE qualification it is far more difficult and far more time consuming to re train for school teaching.
    Better knock FE on the head now and spend two years doing a PGCE and getting QTS ( one year PGCE, one year NQT) than spend five trying to do a GTP or assessment route for QTS from FE qualifications.
    The OP can work in FE with a PGCE (QTS) so nothing lost and all to be gained.
    Far too many poorly informed individuals come here having taken an FE route into teaching and then find they are stuck because they cannot get QTS and teach in schools ( unless they can get a job unqualified - and even then they can only do that for five years) .
    Many more come asking about the QTLS and other FE qualification related issues. I think TES should consider an resident expert for their questions. Save anyone else having to be subjected to any kind of comment like those you continually make to others here.

  8. My comment was a factual correction of the assumption that the poster was working towards a 7407 award - it was not critical of you and I quoted you so that my response made sense. I believe you wish to portay it as being critical because it fitssome form of representation you wish to make of me, as even when I explain that I was not being critical you repeat the accusation.
    I will add that I find your repeated denegration of my hard working colleagues in further education and skills in this way entirely and utterly disgraceful.

  9. excuse my ignorance but I am hugely confused.
    no where around me does this FE PGCE anymore I was told it was now the DETLS/ KETLS two year course thing whcih would lead to a diploma in teaching in the lifelong learning sector. If I wish the second year I can top up and achieve a postgrad diploma in teaching in lifelong learning sector.
    I have completed one year and had full funding and am about to start year 2 with funding. I also teach around it my job teaching was given to me on basis I completed this qualification.
    Since I have done one year and would not get on a PGCE 11-16 (PE) this september i was going to finish it and then try to get on to it next September by then I will have completed my current course and hold a diploma in teaching in LLL Sector. I am concrened I wont get funding for PGCE since I have had it already if not then I would of course conisder a GTP but are you saying it wont be possible to do either because Ive done this? AAAAhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!
  10. I think an earlier poster asked if you had a first degree. Without a first degree you cannot complete a PGCE, (which are now masters level qualifications and where always 'post gradutate...).
  11. Not just confused confusing everyone else as well I think.
    The bottom bottom line is that usually if you have a DTTLS qualification you wont be able to transfer into the sector easily - and certainly not get QTS ( ie be qualified) within five years.
    OK - bottom lines only
    a) you must have a degree to work in a school ( qualified or unqualified)
    b) since you have received funding for your DTTLS course you wont get funded for a PGCE for secondary ( ie QTS recognition)
    c) If you can get a job in a school you may be able to work as an unqualified teacher - but given your subject is PE , I wouldn't hold out great hope. Plenty of PE teachers who have secondary teachers qualifications already.
    d) Once you have some experience ( and providing you do have a relevant degree) you could eventually get onto a GTP.

    I would think that staying in FE is about your only realistic option being candid. Sorry to be negative but that is the way it is
  12. Sorry seem to have an extra T in that there qualification DTTLS should be DTLLS
  13. Hmmm.... I'm sure I will get on GTP at some point..thanks for the doubt like... I have first class hons degree from Loughborough in PE and Sports Science, was elite level athlete and lots coaching qualifications plus loads of experience in secondary schools.
    I'm ****** off with myself for doing this stupid dttls whatever thingy. But at 29 single with renyt and bills I couldnt afford to do full time PGCE and over two years like I'm doing gave me chance to work and live. Now wish I had just done the PGCE (PE) but oh well heres hoping I get on GTP at some point ay..big sigh.....
  14. Unfortunately the LLL and statutory sectors have very different models for the provision of teacher training. That's before we get to the QTS vs QTLS issue.
    But being philosophical; at least you've been earning whilst gaining the DTLLLS.
    One thing you might look at is teaching in independent schools where you don't need QTS and where there is a greater emphasis on high achievement, (as opposed to being able to look after bottom set Y9 on Friday afternoon).
  15. I did first year of Dtlls, but then transferred to yr 2 of a part time PGCE, worked well for me. If you're in a college remember you'll still get the 14 - 16 experience with any luck. You're only 29, honestly take some time to get experience and then change sector if you want to. I only wanted to teach adults, now I love the challenging 16 year olds lol[​IMG]
  16. Has any one managed to get the correct acronym for deetles, detols, ditloids ........
  17. Hiya,
    Sorry to read your situation...but I'm so glad I decided to be nosiy.
    I, like you was considering starting the pttls / dttles this year followed by the PGCE in Citizenship next year, as I took too long to get my a*** in gear and missed the PGCE deadline date. I don't actually want to work in secondary schools, I rather prefer 6th form or FE colleges, but would at least like to keep my options open....like you I have financial committments...:0/.
    Oh, a big THANK YOU to Barriers...very informative.

  18. hardbastard

    hardbastard New commenter

    I don't get why anyone would want to do a DTLLS or PTLLS course. Amateur night programmes all the way. ***. Look. It takes at least a year to do. At the end of it, it isn't recognised ANYWHERE apart from in FE Colleges. Great. Why not just do a proper PGCE? You get some funding, proper subject-specific training and can then teach ANYWHERE (schools, sixth forms, colleges, ANYWHERE) once you've finished it. As for those people who can't do it because they "don't have a degree," I'd like to know how on earth they're in teaching in the first place!! Dreadful and it very much reflects on the somewhat iffy reputation that FE has... I am aware that in FE, there are some subjects that may not necessarily require a University degree in order to teach (e.g. Mechanics), but when people are arguing about these unrecognised and generally useless qualifications, I do wonder what they're thinking of. Don't waste a year undertaking these silly programmes. Go and do a proper course like a secondary PGCE which will award you QTS (e.g. you'll qualify as a 'proper' teacher) and in the process likely make you far, far better.
  19. Three good reasons; you can earn a salary whilst you qualify, they cover a wider range of teaching environments and contexts, and some people only ever want to teach in FE.
    There is something to be said for the pedagogical rigour of a good quality PGCE and also for the advantage of the exposure to secondary education before entering FE. There is nothing good to be said for QTS other than it is proof of the ability to 'teach by numbers' and the survival of 'trial by ordeal'.
    I only wish schools were wholly populated by 'proper' teachers who 'properly' prepared their students before they send them to me.

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